This is tough. If it was just a sicko who generated the images for himself locally… that is the definition of a victimless crime, no? And it might actually dissuade him from seeking out real CSAM…
BUT, iirc he was actually distributing the material, and even contacted minors, so… yeah he definitely needed to be arrested.
But, I’m still torn on the first scenario…
What is the AI trained on?
Image-generating AI is capable of generating images that are not like anything that was in its training set.
AI can compose novel looking things from components it has been trained on - it can’t imagine new concepts. If CSAM is being generated it’s because it was included in it’s training set which is highly suspected as we know the common corpus had CSAM in it: https://cyber.fsi.stanford.edu/news/investigation-finds-ai-image-generation-models-trained-child-abuse
If it has images of construction equipment and houses, it can make images of houses that look like construction equipment. Swap out vocabulary as needed.
Cool, how would it know what a naked young person looks like? Naked adults look significantly different.
It understands young and old.
Is a kid just a 60% reduction by volume of an adult? And these are generative algorithms… nobody really understands how it perceives the world and word relations.
One thing to consider, if this turned out to be accepted, it would make it much harder to prosecute actual csam, they could claim “ai generated” for actual images
I get this position, truly, but I struggle to reconcile it with the feeling that artwork of something and photos of it aren’t equal. In a binary way they are, but with more precision they’re pretty far apart. But I’m not arguing against it, I’m just not super clear how I feel about it yet.
It’s not a difficult test. If a person can’t reasonably distinguish it from an actual child, then it’s CSAM.
Just to play devil’s advocate:
What about hentai where little girls get fondled by tentacles? (Please please please don’t make this be my most up voted post)
Yeah, no. The commenter has stated actual child, not cartoon one. It is a different discussion entirely, and a good one too. Because artwork is a part of freedom of expression. An artwork CAN be made without hurting anyone or abusing anyone. We fully know that a human has creative capabilities to come up with something without having those actual something exist beforehand. It implies that humans can come up with CSAM without ever having seen a CSAM.
Yeah but then it gets very messy and complicated fast. What about photo perfect AI pornography of minors? When and where do you draw the line?
This would also outlaw “teen” porn as they are explicitly trying to look more childlike as well as models that only appear to be minors.
I get the reason people think it’s a good thing but all censorship has to be narrowly tailored to content lest it be too vague or overly broad.
And nothing was lost…
But in seriousness, as you said they are models who are in the industry, verified, etc. It’s not impossible to have a white-list of actors, and if anything there should be more scrutiny on the unknown “actresses” portraying teenagers…
Except jobs dude, you may not like their work but it’s work. That law ignores verified age, that’s a not insignificant part of my point…
So long as the generation is without actual model examples that are actual minors there’s nothing technically illegal about having sexual material of what appears to be a child. They would then have a mens rea question and a content question, what actual defines in a visual sense a child? Could those same things equally define a person of smaller stature? And finally could someone like tiny texie be charged for producing csam as she by all appearance or of context looks to be a child.
It is illegal in Canada to have sexual depictions of a child whether its a real image or you’ve just sat down and drawn it yourself. The rationale being that behavior escalated, and looking at images goes to wanting more
It borders on thought crime which I feel kind of high about but only pedophiles suffer which I feel great about. There’s no legitimate reason to have sexualized image of a child whether computer geneerate, hand drawn, or whatever.
This article isn’t about Canada homeboy.
Also that theory is not provable and never will be, morality crime is thought crime and thought crime is horseshit. We criminalize criminal acts not criminal thoughts.
Similarly, you didn’t actually offer a counterpoint to any of my points.
The problem is that the only way to train an AI model is on real images, so the model can’t exist without crimes and suffering having been committed.
Real images that don’t have to be of csam but rather of children, it could theoretically train anything sexual with legal sexual content and let the ai connect the dots.
Then we should be able to charge AI (the developers moreso) for the same disgusting crime, and shut AI down.
…no
That’d be like outlawing hammers because someone figured out they make a great murder weapon.
Just because you can use a tool for crime, doesn’t mean that tool was designed/intended for crime.
It would be more like outlawing ivory grand pianos because they require dead elephants to make - the AI models under question here were trained on abuse.
Sounds to me it would be more like outlawing grand pianos because of all of the dead elephants - while some people are claiming that it is possible to make a grand piano without killing elephants.
There’s CSAM in the training set[1] used for these models so some elephants have been murdered to make this piano.
3,226 suspected images out of 5.8 billion. About 0.00006%. And probably mislabeled to boot, or it would have been caught earlier. I doubt it had any significant impact on the model’s capabilities.
Camera-makers, too. And people who make pencils. Lock the whole lot up, the sickos.
oh man, i love the future, we havent solved world hunger, or reduce carbon emissions to 0, and we are on the brink of a world war, but now we have AI’s that can generate CSAM and fake footage on the fly 💀
Technically we’ve solved world hunger. We’ve just not fixed it, as the greedy fucks who hoard most of the resources of this world don’t see immediate capital gains from just helping people.
Pretty much the only real problem is billionaires being in control.
True that. We have the means to fix so many problems, we just have a very very very small few that reeeeally don’t like to do anything good with their money, and instead choose to hoard it, at the expense of everyone else.
Oh cmon they don’t hoard the money. They use it to pay each other/politicians to make sure the status quo remains.
They hoard rights and powers, usually. The right to control property and capital far in excess of reasonable private comfort, the right to a share of a company’s profit for using that property and capital, the right to influence its course and all the powers deriving from that.
It is amazing how Lemmy can usually be such a well informed audience but for some reason when it comes to AI people simply refuse to acknowledge that it was trained on CSAM https://cyber.fsi.stanford.edu/news/investigation-finds-ai-image-generation-models-trained-child-abuse
And don’t understand how generative AI combines existing concepts to synthesize images - it doesn’t have the ability to create novel concepts.
it was trained on CSAM
In that case, why haven’t the people who made the AI models been arrested?
