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Loki turned into a mare to get properly fucked by a stallion, get pregnant and deliver an 8 legged super horse (Sleipnir) that Odin proudly rode around… yeah, they are very fine with gender fluidity
I mean, Loki was ultimately a villain, so it’s more like they perfected the queer-coded villain archetype, but there’s also evidence both that Shieldmaidens were a thing and some Shieldbrethen were assigned-as-Shieldmaidens-at-birth. How accepted that would have really been we simply do not know, or how much norms changed by region and time. Or even whether they would have thought you were stupid for asking if ladies could fight in “men’s clothing,” aka, armor.
There is also quite a lot of difference between a Dane, a Kievan Rus, and a citizen of what was basically a republic in Iceland in 930 AD.
Pretending the Vikings/Norse/Whatever were some pinnacle of ancient tolerance is just as wrong as pretending they followed practices that map 1-to-1 on modern bigotry. They were an immensely patriarchal culture, whose economy was quite literally based on chattel slavery on a scale that would only be matched by American plantatioms, with a whole slew of what can only be called toxic masculinity, who only could ever look good in comparison to Roman and Abrahamic norms, but that’s the comparison Westerners will inevitably make in their favor because that is the standard they know.
Pretending the Vikings/Norse/Whatever were some pinnacle of ancient tolerance is just as wrong as pretending they followed practices that map 1-to-1 on modern bigotry…
I’m not pretending any of that… nor I am implying they are an example of morality about anything… All I am saying is that, what we now call “gender fluidity” or simply anything in the “LGBTQ+” spectrum does not seem to be, in and of itself, a “sin” or a morally reprehensible act in the Nordic mythology.
Also, Loki wasn’t really a villain… he was more the “anti hero” type… From all the Nordic mythology I have read (I just like it, I’m not a scholar) the attitude towards him always seemed to be “Damn it Loki, we could get along if you stop being an asshole for a day”… not “I shall vanquish Loki and end his evil ways”
Doesn’t Loki being a villain vary from myth to myth? In some he’s just mischievous, in others outright malicious. The Ragnarok myth has him leading the armies of the dead, but I’ve always wondered how modified the story is due to the influence of Christian monks…
Pretty sure Loki was the mother of Odin’s horse.
He also got Thor to dress as Freya to pretend to marry a giant king
I personally don’t see that is one of those trans Loki moments, because I’m cis, love joking, and identify with Loki in the tale.
If I were in that situation, I would 1000% find it hilarious to convince my best bro the only way to get their most prized possession back is to crossdress and trick a King.
And you are correct!
And the father of Fenrir and Jormungandr!
And Angrboda I thought too
Edit: Angrboda was the momma. Hel, the protector of the underworld, was his daughter
No, Angrboda was his mate. You might be thinking of Hel, whom I also forgot to mention.
Classic Loki.
They’d kidnap and enslave them just like everyone else; true egalitarians!
tbf that’s like talking about the US miliary, who do horrible things without most of the population being aware of it
Canonically accurate.
Edit: Huh, you’re going to have to open the image in a new tab to actually read the comic.
I’m sure a whole lot of people where fine with it until the christofasciast colonisers and occupiers had their way
Close to 100% viking here, you’re welcome! I might enslave you though, but without prejudice.
Nice try viking. By viking law you can only keep what you kill and a dead slave is worthless, therefore taking a corpse as a slave has no standing. You will just have to settle for the plunder and be on your way.
You forgot the most important Viking law:
I feel like you don’t know what a viking is.
How can I not? I am one!
BTW viking society seemingly didnt only kill and plunder ;-)
Vikings were a very particular group of Scandinavians who, during parts of the year, went on their longboats and raided villages and stole stuff to bring home. For most of the year, they were farmers and fishermen. Having Scandinavian ancestry does not make you a viking, they literally don’t exist anymore.
I’m 100% Nordic by the wayWhat about this guy then, huh?
Techno Viking is a time traveller so he doesn’t count. Fun fact, Vikings used to have a rave after a successful raid
Vikings also fucked their friend’s wife when he died. Also were supporters of slavery and have abused their slaves. Am failing to see the point?
Are there any supporters of slavery that haven’t abused their slaves? It seems to be part of the whole deal.
She’s probably taking on those hyper masculine white nationalists obsessed with their viking ancestors, not on vikings to be cool again.
Kind of weird post then, not to include the origin of the argument.
Twitter
I’m pretty sure modern day viking descendants are ok with them.
Viking: Can you fight?
Trans Viking: yeah!
Viking: cool, let’s go fuck some shit up!
Read more norse mythology for smart people at
https://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/the-aesir-gods-and-goddesses/odin/
He’s a war-god, but also a poetry-god, and he has prominent “effeminate” qualities that would have brought unspeakable shame to any historical Viking warrior.
cal tradition known as seidr, of which Odin and Freya are the foremost divine practitioners. In traditional Germanic society, for a man to engage in seidr was effectively to forsake the male gender role, which brought considerable scorn upon any male who chose to take up this path. As the sagas show, this didn’t stop some men from practicing seidr anyway. However, even Odin wasn’t exempt from such charges of “unmanliness,” and was taunted for adopting the feminine traits and tasks that form part of the backbone of seidr. Saxo, in the passage on Odin’s exile alluded to above, relates that “by his stage-tricks and his assumption of a woman’s work he had brought the foulest scandal on the name of the gods.”[16] Note also the reference to being “fertilized” in the verse quoted above – while this is certainly a metaphor, it’s a metaphor loaded with sexual implications that would have been immediately recognizable to any Viking Age or medieval reader or hearer of the poem. A fuller discussion of the relationship between Germanic shamanism and gender roles can be found here: https://norse-mythology.org/concepts/shamanism/
I’m 90% sure vikings would have been more than a little excited by the idea.
You’re just saying that because of Scandinavia’s track record on trans people
Actually modern day Scandinavia’s attitude towards trans people needs some work.
“NYUUU! THEY WERE WHITE GUYS AND SUPER STRAIGHT AND THEY LOVED JESUS aND… ANDajdas.” - Right Wingers
who said they wouldn’t
A lot of alt right dickheads use viking insignia and culture to their advantage in dogwistling and such, which sucks and I’m assuming what is being referenced.
The vikings only cares if you behave Viking. Ethnicity don’t matter. Sexuality don’t matter. And I can’t fathom that they’d care for how you dress. As long as you have Viking values you are top notch
Or actually they might care for how you dress as they were very vain and loved to dress up. Quite fancy
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Ooo - a true master on Viking history here!! Tell us all about how it really was and what values they had. What ethnicities they accepted and how they viewed homosexuality?
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how about if I prove my points and you prove they’re lies
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Right - then I’ll just block you
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Accusing a man of being “ergi,” which is basically unmanly, was enough of an insult to be answered with blood. A specific instance of something that qualifies a man of being ergi is taking the passive role (bottom) in homosexual intercourse.
Author and Norse historian Neil Price describes “Viking” culture as being one of the most homophobic in history.
Yet being top was accepted and revered. I’d say they were somewhat bi-friendly, and I’ve yet to hear about how they viewed lesbians.
Both Loki and Odin takes the roles/duties of women several times, while not being cast out or referred to as ergi.
Cross dressing I think was harder to execute as the manly outfits were lavish already.
Yeah this thread is full of idiots who care more about Marvel movies than about historical fact.
Norse society was hyper masculine and being called womanlike was just about the worst insult you could give to someone. Nobody “worshipped” Loki, he was the antagonist/occasionally the antihero of their stories, but the takeaway of the stories was always meant to be “Loki is not a role model”
Why do people care if a society of slavers and pillagers from 1200 years ago were progressive by modern standards? What an idiotic thing to be so confidently wrong about.
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Who cares what a bunch of savage pillagers would have wanted?
What I’m sure of is that the forefathers of modern civilization, the Romans, would have fucking loved trans folks.
I mean, the Romans were just industrialized pillagers. Who cares what they would have thought.
Yeah! What have the romans ever done for us?!
I mean, if you’re going to disregard the contributions of Viking culture because they were notorious for their pillaging, it’s only fair to disregard Rome, whose entire economy was based on systematized pillaging.
Both cultures have contributions, but the wholesale massacre of other civilizations gets a pass when we discuss Rome for some reason.
They gave us roads.
Well yeah, obviously the roads. The roads go without saying, don’t they?
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No joke, didn’t Nero marry a trans woman?
More like forcibly feminized a young slave that resembled his late wife, whom he had beaten to death. I wouldn’t exactly hold him up as an ally.
Holy shit, that took a turn.
Most shit with Nero was pretty gnarly if I remember correctly, he was the person most scholars of that period agree the Antichrist in revelation is supposed to be, that in particular may have primarily been because he implemented taxes on religious organizations though… again it’s been a while since I studied either but I do remember Nero being fucked up even by the standards of Roman emperors
It’s not about caring what Vikings wanted, it’s just illustrating it was found even in some of the most ancient and “less civilized” cultures. The point being it’s not unusual, new, or unique to our culture.
The problem here is none of y’all know shit about Vikings. Or Northmen. Or whatever you want to call them.
