My car cost 10k€, the equivalent EV is 20k€. Why don’t I buy more EVs? That’s a mystery, let’s call McKinsey to understand why.
Also let’s double the price of more affordable foreign cars to increase the amount of mystery. Sometimes I wonder if governments do this to make fun of us because it’s so stupid.
Those “more affordable foreign cars” are only priced that low because the Chinese government is subsidizing them so much, which is only temporary and lasts just as long as it takes to put their competitors out of business.
This is a race to the bottom just like states giving trillion dollar corporations billions in tax breaks as an incentive to move to their state. At the end of the day, it just harms everyone and should be avoided, which is why the US and EU are putting tariffs on Chinese EVs. They’re still free to sell them at the real cost and actually compete with everyone else.
There’s also the issue of very little (if any) used EVs on the market, and in an affordable range. Most people are looking for a reliable used car for around $1000-$2000 US, and the cheapest EV I have seen is around $7500. And there’s always the question of what condition the batteries are in – if you had to replace all the batteries in a used EV then you easily doubled the cost of it. Fortunately it seems like Tesla is the only manufacturer asinine enough to seal their batteries, other manufactures allow replacement of individual cells which will really help in the used market.
$1000-$2000 cars are the $500 beaters from 10+ years ago. I wouldn’t say most people are looking in this price range and they’re usually on their last leg and the cheapest option for a car. There are cellphones that cost more than this now.
I can buy a $1k car, carefully, and have a “beater” that works fine. Most people can’t. They need something in a bit better condition.
Though the greater point - battery replacement would be $5k-$10k on most cars, no thanks - that’s equivalent to replacing both the engine and transmission on a gas vehicle, at “fuck the customer” stealership prices.
My gas vehicles always go 300k miles, before needing either an engine or trans, many longer. Engines today are damn robust, and have been since the 90’s.
My maintenance over the years is trivial - about $150/year on fluid changes (that with an AWD vehicle with a unique setup). Occasionally something breaks, but that stuff you’d have on any vehicle (tie rod ends, latches, hood release cabke/switch, etc).
If I were expecting to buy a car for $1-2k, I’d expect it to be on its last legs, even for ICE. Unless you’re comfortable fixing it yourself, any significant repair is already not worth it
However, there’s a nice niche of used EVs. I can get a 2-5yo Bolt for $13-17k (76-100 XMR) after the $4k credit, which should still have 200+ miles range. I’m seriously considering it, but only for my commuter.
If you only have one car, range and charging network are serious considerations as well if you like to do road trips. My coworker with a brand new Model 3 has avoided certain trips within our state just because of charging network. It’s a serious issue…
From what I can tell, it only really impacts 2017 and 2019 Bolts, and most (all?) of the problematic ones have been recalled. Certainly ask for proof when buying though.
They expanded the initial recall. It affects models from 2017 to 2022. If you read the linked article I previously provided, then you missed the key point that vehicles were still bursting into flames even after the recall.
GM stopped replacing the batteries of the newer models and instead offered a software solution that would monitor the batteries for any issues and allow the vehicle to charge beyond the 80% limit that they had set because of these issues.
https://electrek.co/2023/06/14/bolt-battery-recall-diagnostics/
Ah, interesting. Thanks for the clarification. There’s been a lot of white-washing by people arguing that the problem wasn’t as bad as it was (it’s still a small percentage of vehicles), and I was considering getting a 2020 to avoid the issues in the earlier models.
That said, I may still get one. From the last link:
Briglin didn’t always run the battery low before recharging, but said that “at least 50% of charges” he plugged in below 20%. This is a similar pattern to the last fire on May 1 and something that seems to trigger the runaway thermal events.
I will rarely be below 50% charge, much less 20%. My commute is 25 miles each way, 2x/week, so if I assume 50% range in winter, I’ll still need <50% battery capacity. The rest of the driving would be around-town, so maybe 10-15 miles/day. So I could set a cap of 80% and charge whenever it gets <40% and probably be totally fine.
But I also plan to park in a garage with flammable stuff nearby (bare drywall, dry leaves, cardboard boxes, etc), so maybe I won’t even take that small risk. Idk, I’ll need to read more about it. I could park outside if needed though, I have a brick house with external outlets that I could use, it’s just kind of inconvenient.
I mean, just they’re too expensive. You can buy a normal gas car for around 147 Monero while an EV will set you back 238 Monero.
My car cost 10k€, the equivalent EV is 20k€. Why don’t I buy more EVs? That’s a mystery, let’s call McKinsey to understand why.
Also let’s double the price of more affordable foreign cars to increase the amount of mystery. Sometimes I wonder if governments do this to make fun of us because it’s so stupid.
Those “more affordable foreign cars” are only priced that low because the Chinese government is subsidizing them so much, which is only temporary and lasts just as long as it takes to put their competitors out of business.
This is a race to the bottom just like states giving trillion dollar corporations billions in tax breaks as an incentive to move to their state. At the end of the day, it just harms everyone and should be avoided, which is why the US and EU are putting tariffs on Chinese EVs. They’re still free to sell them at the real cost and actually compete with everyone else.
There’s also the issue of very little (if any) used EVs on the market, and in an affordable range. Most people are looking for a reliable used car for around $1000-$2000 US, and the cheapest EV I have seen is around $7500. And there’s always the question of what condition the batteries are in – if you had to replace all the batteries in a used EV then you easily doubled the cost of it. Fortunately it seems like Tesla is the only manufacturer asinine enough to seal their batteries, other manufactures allow replacement of individual cells which will really help in the used market.
$1000-$2000 cars are the $500 beaters from 10+ years ago. I wouldn’t say most people are looking in this price range and they’re usually on their last leg and the cheapest option for a car. There are cellphones that cost more than this now.
Agreed.
I can buy a $1k car, carefully, and have a “beater” that works fine. Most people can’t. They need something in a bit better condition.
Though the greater point - battery replacement would be $5k-$10k on most cars, no thanks - that’s equivalent to replacing both the engine and transmission on a gas vehicle, at “fuck the customer” stealership prices.
My gas vehicles always go 300k miles, before needing either an engine or trans, many longer. Engines today are damn robust, and have been since the 90’s.
My maintenance over the years is trivial - about $150/year on fluid changes (that with an AWD vehicle with a unique setup). Occasionally something breaks, but that stuff you’d have on any vehicle (tie rod ends, latches, hood release cabke/switch, etc).
There’s a lot of BS out there about all this.
If I were expecting to buy a car for $1-2k, I’d expect it to be on its last legs, even for ICE. Unless you’re comfortable fixing it yourself, any significant repair is already not worth it
Yup.
However, there’s a nice niche of used EVs. I can get a 2-5yo Bolt for $13-17k (76-100 XMR) after the $4k credit, which should still have 200+ miles range. I’m seriously considering it, but only for my commuter.
If you only have one car, range and charging network are serious considerations as well if you like to do road trips. My coworker with a brand new Model 3 has avoided certain trips within our state just because of charging network. It’s a serious issue…
76 to 100 is not a bad price range, actually. Not at all.
Yup. Basic new EVs should be in that price range though, this is for used EVs with a gov’t incentive.
Used EVs have come down a lot this year, at least in the US, so check your local area if you’re interested in a commuter.
I would avoid used Bolts, especially because of all the issues those have had with going up in flames.
Hopefully they’ve fixed those issues in the newest models…
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/14/gm-warns-some-bolt-ev-owners-dont-park-them-inside-or-charge-them-unattended-overnight.html
From what I can tell, it only really impacts 2017 and 2019 Bolts, and most (all?) of the problematic ones have been recalled. Certainly ask for proof when buying though.
I’m just going to get a different year instead.
They expanded the initial recall. It affects models from 2017 to 2022. If you read the linked article I previously provided, then you missed the key point that vehicles were still bursting into flames even after the recall.
Expanded recall: https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/09/gm-asking-chevy-bolt-ev-owners-to-park-50-feet-away-from-other-vehicles/
GM stopped replacing the batteries of the newer models and instead offered a software solution that would monitor the batteries for any issues and allow the vehicle to charge beyond the 80% limit that they had set because of these issues. https://electrek.co/2023/06/14/bolt-battery-recall-diagnostics/
But it’s worth noting that this software update has failed to prevent some fires, so the problem isn’t really “fixed” even with this: https://electrek.co/2021/07/08/chevy-bolt-ev-catches-on-fire-after-receiving-both-of-gm-software-fixes/
Ah, interesting. Thanks for the clarification. There’s been a lot of white-washing by people arguing that the problem wasn’t as bad as it was (it’s still a small percentage of vehicles), and I was considering getting a 2020 to avoid the issues in the earlier models.
That said, I may still get one. From the last link:
I will rarely be below 50% charge, much less 20%. My commute is 25 miles each way, 2x/week, so if I assume 50% range in winter, I’ll still need <50% battery capacity. The rest of the driving would be around-town, so maybe 10-15 miles/day. So I could set a cap of 80% and charge whenever it gets <40% and probably be totally fine.
But I also plan to park in a garage with flammable stuff nearby (bare drywall, dry leaves, cardboard boxes, etc), so maybe I won’t even take that small risk. Idk, I’ll need to read more about it. I could park outside if needed though, I have a brick house with external outlets that I could use, it’s just kind of inconvenient.