• eestileib@sh.itjust.works
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      5 months ago

      I’m gonna vote for Biden if I have to rise from the dead and crawl through broken glass to do so, and I hope everyone reading this thread does.

      I’m not willing to pretend he’s not facilitating an ongoing genocide though.

      • suction@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Who makes you pretend that? You guys all want a medal for preaching to the choir?

        • eestileib@sh.itjust.works
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          5 months ago

          The Democratic party expects their members to pretend that what’s happening in Gaza is not a genocide. They censured Rep Tlaib for saying so in Congress.

            • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              So what you’re saying is that you’re a-okay with fascism and genocide, provided it wears a blue jersey?

                • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  I see a whole lot of excuses flying form Democrats to try and distract from the fact that they’re voting for Genocide Joe in November.

                  This thread is littered with them.

                  • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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                    5 months ago

                    If you actually cared about saving Palestine, your best bet is genocide Joe whether you like it or not.

                    Every other option just increases the chance for Turbo Genocide Donny to “finish the job”, and you know it.

                    But you don’t care about Palestine, do you? You just want to sow chaos in the US.

    • HopeOfTheGunblade@kbin.social
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      5 months ago

      Yes but see, if we just sit on our hands and don’t vote we won’t have any responsibility for what follows! Only voting for someone who is less than ideal on this issue is a morally bad choice!

      • StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        I totally understand the point most of them are trying to make and agree with the sentiment, but they’re fucking morons. 100% absolute jibbering idiots.

        This is an ugly binary choice here because the United States electoral system is a steaming pile of horse shit. Do what I, your friendly neighborhood lefty, am doing and swallow your pride and vote for center right Joe Biden because he’s leagues better than the dementia-addled, fascist Cheeto Benito. Then take all the disgust you’ve built up by voting for and living with another neoliberal corporate shill presidency and work your ass off to make sure we don’t have to keep voting between Dumb and Dumber every fucking election.

        Do it because we’ll only be gently tiptoeing to the right under a Biden presidency, so it’s less likely you’ll end up in jail for discussing the “wrong” political ideology while that orange shitstained merkin would have me in jail just for writing this were it up to him. Don’t make it up to him.

        • kescusay@lemmy.worldM
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          5 months ago

          Every time I encounter the “don’t vote” brigade, my first thought is that it’s a Russian or Chinese troll trying to get Trump elected again.

          My second thought, which is a bit more nuanced, is some introspection on what Biden is actually doing. He has three options with regards to Israel, none of them good.

          1. He could deny them weapons, which would inevitably lead to outright war with Iran and an increase in Russian influence in the region, as well as a loss of an ally.
          2. He could fully commit to Netanyahu’s madness (i.e., what Trump wants to do), fully empowering genocide while using no political leverage on Israel. This would also ultimately lead to broad regional warfare, which will also likely increase Russian influence in the region.
          3. He could try to limit the damage by imposing conditions on weapons sales and attempt to thread the needle, recognizing Hamas for the grotesque terrorist organization it is while using political pressure to prevent as much needless death of civilians as possible. This is what Biden is trying to do.

          I don’t know that Biden is doing a very good job with #3, but #1 would be a catastrophe, and #2 is what Trump wants.

          This is a shitty situation in every conceivable way. Our ally, Israel, is currently being run by a corrupt and genocidal freak. There are no good answers to a situation like that beyond Israel coming to its senses and throwing Netanyahu in prison. But there are plenty of really bad answers, and Trump would be the worst.

          • beardown@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            He could deny them weapons, which would inevitably lead to outright war with Iran and an increase in Russian influence in the region

            Why?

            He could fully commit to Netanyahu’s madness (i.e., what Trump wants to do), fully empowering genocide while using no political leverage on Israel.

            Biden is doing this - he is threatening the ICC and ICJ

            He could try to limit the damage by imposing conditions on weapons sales and attempt to thread the needle, recognizing Hamas for the grotesque terrorist organization it is while using political pressure to prevent as much needless death of civilians as possible. This is what Biden is trying to do.

            Biden is not doing this. We have not stopped weapon shipments and have clearly been unable (more like unwilling) to stop or prevent Israel’s genocide

            Also, Israel is not our ally. Their geopolitical interests align with Putin. Which is why they are trying to get Trump elected so that they can destroy the remnants of the “rules based international order” and begin in earnest their conquest of Greater Israel

            • kescusay@lemmy.worldM
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              5 months ago

              Why?

              Because Iran is a Russian ally and Russian proxy.

              Biden is doing this - he is threatening the ICC and ICJ

              No, he isn’t. Where in the world are you getting the idea that he’s literally “threatening” either?

              Biden is not doing this. We have not stopped weapon shipments and have clearly been unable (more like unwilling) to stop or prevent Israel’s genocide

              Dude, we temporarily halted shipments earlier this month to put pressure on Netanyahu. Were you sleeping?

              Also, Israel is not our ally. Their geopolitical interests align with Putin. Which is why they are trying to get Trump elected so that they can destroy the remnants of the “rules based international order” and begin in earnest their conquest of Greater Israel

              Netanyahu’s interests may align with Putin, but only insofar as both seem hell-bent on destabilizing the region. Putin would gladly let Iran stroll right into Israel and slaughter everyone in it. Israel’s own actual interests do not remotely align with Putin’s.

              • beardown@lemm.ee
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                5 months ago

                Because Iran is a Russian ally and Russian proxy.

                Yes, but why does that mean stopping US weapons shipments to Israel would cause Iran to invade/attack/etc? Israel has a huge weapons stockpile and is still a Western ally - they just happen to be committing genocide with American funds and bombs.

                Where in the world are you getting the idea that he’s literally “threatening” either?

                https://www.ft.com/content/6700a246-e0cd-49d8-b5ef-d2379e86290f

                “The administration of President Joe Biden will work with Congress on possible sanctions against the International Criminal Court after its prosecutor announced it was seeking arrest warrants for senior Israeli and Hamas officials, US secretary of state Antony Blinken said on Tuesday.”

                we temporarily halted shipments earlier this month to put pressure on Netanyahu

                We resumed those shipments and funds, and Israel has since crossed Biden’s red line and attacked Rafah

                Netanyahu’s interests may align with Putin

                Netanyahu/Likud are dictators who control Israel. Until he/they are removed, their interests are Israel’s interests. Which means that Israel is a Russian asset with a stranglehold on American funds thanks to AIPAC

                • davidagain@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  I’d just like to remind you folks the headline you’re debating under:

                  Nikki Haley writes ‘finish them’ on IDF artillery shells during Israel visit

                  • beardown@lemm.ee
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                    5 months ago

                    Biden/Dems sent the genocide bombs and Haley/Republicans autographed them.

                    I’m not sure how that improves things

      • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        You do realize that “less than ideal” is probably an inadequate way to describe Joe funding a genocidal apartheid, right?

        It’s astonishing to me how comfortable you are with fascism, provided it wears a blue jersey.

    • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Yeah, those stupid kids should just realize that one constant in America is that we kill or enable the killing of children. They should just accept that children will be killed in their name and get over themselves like us grown ups.

    • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      No, it isn’t.

      We want to replace Genocide Joe with the Greens.

      Unfortunately most American voters lack a conscience, so it’s not going to happen.

      • TheLowestStone@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Unfortunately most American voters lack a conscience, so it’s not going to happen.

        If you actually want to attract people to your cause, you may want to consider changing your tone. It could also be beneficial to mention some positive things about the candidate that you recommend instead of just bashing the current regime.

        • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          I’m shouting into the void and I know it. Nothing I do or say will change anything.

          I can look at the last 40 years and be astonished at how little American voters care about their own welfare, and rest assured that the election in November will likely be 49% to 49%, because for some reason they all are just exceptionally well-programmed to vote for the candidates that the wealthy want them to vote for. All of them are poorer now, both economically and socially, than they were even just ten years ago. They can see with their own two eyes that they get poorer no matter which party we elect, and it doesn’t stop them from voting solely on team color anyway.

          Hell, the Democrats had Marianne Williamson, an anti-war, pro-living wage, pro-universal health care candidate who can actually form a coherent thought in their primary. They decided overwhelmingly that they wanted the old, addled warmonger to be their president, even though he’s done nothing meaningful to try and fix their poverty, opting to spend his time keeping his scumbag son out of prison and the war money flowing to other countries.

      • XeroxCool@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        What is that law? Closest I think I can get is HR 4986 sec 227 which mentions Israel, but I can’t read further. Who put it in place?

        • davidagain@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          From the linked politico article,

          Legally, the U.S. can’t cut Israel off completely. Since 2008, the U.S. has had to weigh all arms sales to Israel and other countries in the region against the requirement that Israel maintains a “qualitative military edge” against all enemies, both state and non-state actors.

          In 2008, George W. Bush was in his second term as president.

          • XeroxCool@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Yes, Bush was the president for most of 2008. Obama got a short portion, although the exact president in place doesn’t necessarily tell you if they agreed anyway. Since president’s don’t really write law, I was looking for the exact law to see the history of which representatives were pushing it. I wanted to see what the angle was for that piece of the bill and what else was attached to it. Nothing gets passed as an individual law, meaning it was probably a rider in a much larger group of laws that likely made it a non-negotiable requirement bundled into a more pressing matter.

            But I guess 9+ people read my simple question as total contempt for the situation.