L’année dernière le sujet a été abordés par @AlexisFR@jlai.lu et je souhaite relancé l’idée de dé-fédérer de cette instance.
Je navigue depuis quelque temps sans bloquer la moindre instances question de simuler un peu l’expérience de quelqu’un qui rejoint le fediverse via l’instance jlai.lu.
Les posts qui apparaissent dans le fil et le comportement de la plupart des usagers de cette instance pollue tout simplement l’expérience Lemmy.
Même sans parler de possible liens avec CCP, Kremlin etc… je pense que, à mon humble avis, leur comportement et leur façons de brigader et de diffamer une opinion qui ne diverge que d’à peine d’un poil de leur courant de penser, va sincèrement à l’encontre de l’état d’esprit de notre communauté sur cette instance.
Je me suis opposé sans vraiment me prononcer l’année dernière à une dé-fédération (étant donné qu’ils ne sont pas francophone et que j’aime bien le drama inter-instances de temps temps) mais leurs prises de positions en permanence ahurissantes et (en pesant mes mots au maximum) d’une flagrante dissonance cognitive je dois dire que trop c’est trop.
Je pense sincèrement que malgré le fait nos intéractions soit assez minimes avec cette instance je pense que sur le long terme leur influence est nocive et que, dans l’idée de garder une certaines sérénité pour les personnes et futures personnes qui utiliseront cette instance, qu’il y ai une dé-fédération de cette instance de la notre.
Bon pour revenir ici et lister quelque exemples on pour ce qui est de l’appel à la violence on a :
https://hexbear.net/comment/5511565
pour la toxicité en général on a ce post :
https://hexbear.net/post/3683187
Célébration de la violence :
https://hexbear.net/post/3628416
Ce n’est que quelque exemples de façon générale même si on peut être d’accord ou pas avec leur message. C’est en opposition assez concrète avec le message que l’on porte ici.
J’ai été banni de memes sur hexbear pour avoir réaffirmé le génocide en cours des Uyghours en Chine. Cette instance est malsaine et répand la désinformation
Quand j’ai lu le titre du post et vu le nombre de commentaires, je savais déjà ce que j’allais trouver en cliquant dessus.
Alors mes chers petits jlailuftwaffen, vous en pensez quoi de l’expérience Hexagonours ? 😅
de-federation is effectively a ban and banning at a the instance level creates centralization; which is 100% contrary to the ethos of the fediverse.
block them yourself; but don’t make that decision for other people who didn’t ask you for it.
I can’t believe this niche site with the population of a small village is influential enough to be working with China and Russia!
En voyant leurs réponses à ce post, je soutiens ton avis. Être désagréable comme ca parce qu’on met en question ton instance c’est toxique.
J’étais vraiment neutre sur la question avant ce post, mais au vu de leur brigading, je plussoie maintenant totalement le fait de les défédérer.
J’étais vraiment neutre sur la question avant ce post, mais au vu de leur brigading, je plussoie maintenant totalement le fait de les défédérer.
+1
Même avis que toi, ils ne s’aident pas avec ce genre de brigading dès que le nom de leur instance est mentionné
Edit : d’ailleurs perso quand je vais voir une instance autre que jlai.lu, je fais attention à leurs règles, ce qui clairement n’est pas leur cas vu les attaques gratuites envers OP, entre autres
I can’t wait for the rest of the Sahel to kick your frog asses out. By the way, give back all the gold and uranium your state stole, colonoids.
J’ai hâte que le reste du Sahel vous botte le cul. Au fait, rendez tout l’or et l’uranium que votre État a volés, des colonoïdes.
Thank you for your action.
I just came from a phone call with Macron, and thanks to you, he agreed to get out of Sahel, decolonize our DROM-COM, recognize palestinian genocide and form a french politburo to lead France towards communist revolution.
We couldn’t have done without you
TBH France probably made more money from slave trade and oil theft.
True, but if Amerika’s anything to go by, neither the motherland nor its subjects-of-empire will be getting reparated for that until Paris is a smoldering slag pile.
Thank you for your brave service. By bullying french people on the internet, you have finally undone imperialism. You can now rest, hero.
Solide
What the heck, people are coming from mander too?
+1! I’ve been absent… what? 13 hours and I find out what? Que notre instance est prise à l’abordage par Hexbear et que les autres instances sont autour à popcorn ?! Il se passe quoi au juste ??
Bon sang… Plus je lis les commentaires, plus j’écarquille les yeux OP a invoqué tout le gratin du fédivers avec son petit post.probably just me tbh. i have like, most of fedi blocked for being only brainrot meta shitposts and such. it keeps more serious stuff like this from smaller communities in my feed regularly even though i browse all/active mostly.
for my part i blocked hexbear within a week of joining and have not looked back, and i think blocking at the personal level is the appropriate course here.
Just because this post is about internal jlai.lu instance policy, that doesn’t stop it from showing up in the feeds of users of other instances whose views are set to “all.”
It does, but it requires someone from that instance to subscribe the community for it to be federated. You’re on LW, but on smaller instances it’s usually not the case. That’s why I was surprised.
I want to check know how many people subscribe from mander.xyz to this community, but mander seems down at the moment.
Je suppose que slrpnk.net les defedere aussi, je vois pas les commentaires en question.
slrpnk.net is defederated from Hexbear.net, correct.
You mean it is hexbear that defederated them?
I believe it was slrpnk.net that defederated, based on admin comments like this. More that they never federated, I think.
Oui oui, depuis un moment. Si tu veux jeter un oeil: https://jlai.lu/post/11504685
Oui j’ai vu, ils sont adorables. Je me demande à quel point ils sont réels et à quel point c’est un jeu.
Ca a l’air sérieux, c’est ça le pire
N’ayant fait part d’aucun exemple concret, je ne vois pas pourquoi on défédèrerait d’une instance historique.
La seule participation active de leurs membres à l’instance, est, de mémoire, dans ce thread, ce qui me semble justifié.
Si tu ne souhaites pas voir le contenu de hexbear, tu peux la blacklister dans tes options de profil, comme toute autre instance, depuis une ou deux versions de lemmy.
J’ai l’impression qu’on a récupéré le ou les meilleurs en plus sur ce post 🤣
Bref, mis a part les boulets qui voient des nazis partout (ils on du ratter c/gauchisse et les quelques fritages de fachos qu’on a eu), pour l’instant je ne voit pas de problème avec la fédé.
J’ai clairement heurté leur sensibilité rien qu’avec le titre ça je suis d’accord. À la base je ne m’attendais pas du tout à voir leur commentaires ici surtout à cause de la barrière de la langue.
Je pensait que ça allait une petite conversation et débat entre nous et une petite nuit tranquille pour moi (il est déjà tard là où je suis) que je pourrais poster quelque exemple demains etc… mais mon post s’est affiché en ”hot” sur leur instance…
Je vais me coucher et je vais essayer le trouver quelques pépites comme exemples plus tard.
Encore une fois rien que leur interaction avec ce post reflète parfaitement l’état d’esprit de cette communauté.
Pour rajouter une petite chose même si l’on peut qualifier leur réponse comme étant “justifiée” je ne pense pas que m’accuser de soutient aux nazi, Facho et insuite partir en live sur du MAGA (même si cowbee s’est rattrapé sur la fin merci pour ça) sois une réponse mesurée.
À la base je ne m’attendais pas du tout à voir leur commentaires ici surtout à cause de la barrière de la langue.
Je pense qu’on a tous été surpris
je ne pense pas que m’accuser de soutient aux nazi, Facho
Non effectivement, je l’ai fait remarquer
partir en live sur du MAGA
Le MAGA date du poste de l’année passée que tu as mis en lien, je me demandais aussi d’où ça sortait au début.
Perhaps you should just log off instead of publicly crying about how someone made fun of you for having a bad opinion
Anyway, I’m heading back to the fucking Kremlin lmao. I’ll leave you to lauding nazis for their ‘mercy killings’
What’s that thing about nazis?
I went looking in their post history for the incitement to make this complaint and saw that they were denying nazi warcrimes in the Ukraine war by calling their side’s acts “mercy killings”
Tu peux lire plus bas, à un moment ils expliquent leur raisonnement
Intéressant tiens, comment êtes-vous arrivés sur ce fil?
I think it’s quite funny that you want to defederate from an instance and you don’t know what federation is or how it works.
This is how:
Je suis bien au courant, maintenant je suis surpris que cette communauté ait atteint le “Hot” de chez vous avec 5 votes.
Après, j’imagine que vu que vous êtes défédérés par Lemmy.world, lemmy.blahaj.zone et d’autres, ça doit restreindre pas mal le nombre de posts dans votre flux.
Je pensais aussi que cette communauté forçait de poster avec un tag “français”, apparemment ce n’est pas le cas.
What an odd question to ask in the first place then!
Pas tellement. Au-delà du filtre de la langue, je connais peu de gens qui utilisent All en “Hot”. Sur Jlai.lu on est surtout soit en Local (pour avoir les communautés en français), soit en Abonnements, et si on passe en All ce sera plus Top Day, Top 12 hours, Top 6 hours.
Je suis pratiquement sûr que si ouvriez un fil similaire sur !announcements@hexbear.net, personne de Jlai.lu ne le verrait.
J’utilise Hot sur All mais c’est franchement gavant. Je devrais essayer un des classements que tu proposes. ça pourrait ne pas être mal.
Fascinating
Je ne voir pas ‘français’ de tag. Tu aide moi?
Je ne parler pas français.
Comment est votre banquette ?
We aren’t talking about defederating but listening to his complain. I’m curious, did you subcribe to meta@jlai.lu and why ? Or was it the magic of federation ? :)
You can see this post from Hexbear standard All sorting.
Thank, so you don’t use language filter ? :)
I personally disable it so I can see more posts.
Cette communauté ne force pas le français: https://jlai.lu/post/11504685/10380145
You can’t fool me. We use the same word for ‘defederation’ except you have sloppy pen work and leave marks all over it
I recap again, the moderation stance and admins isn’t about defederating without any proof. Please, read the com of @anansi@jlai.lu, the admin of jlai.lu
@meta@jlai.lu is a place where anyone can complain about mismanagement from our part or asking defederation, improvement, advice and help.
But we NEVER EVER defederate with the snap of a finger because it does impedes users’s experience. We only do it for very serious case or temporary to stop spam wave.
This place is where we share opinion about our instance. It is not related to our decision.
Perso leur instance était déjà bloquée sur mon compte. Je les vois comme un 18-25 de JVC mais à gauche et international, les discussions ne volent jamais haut.
Malheureusement, je vois sur ce post que bloquer l’instance dans les paramètres ne permet pas d’échapper à leurs commentaires, mais bon, jusqu’ici ça ne m’avait pas gêné, donc je ne suis pas spécialement pour les défédérer.
Hello,
Merci pour ce post.
Aurais-tu des examples de leurs prises de positions? Cela permettrait que chacun puisse se faire une idéeInutile y’en a déjà un qui vient de se présenter à l’acceuil https://hexbear.net/comment/5510780
Ca resterait bien d’avoir 2-3 exemples. Pour les défendre, si on venait venir parler de défédérer Jlai.lu à cause de comportement problématiques sans donner d’exemples, je serais sans doute un peu remonté aussi.
Pour les comportements problématiques ça va être assez simple car rien que dans ce fil ils viennent de faire le travail à ma place. Les autres personnes si elles n’ont pas encore bloqué cette instance n’ont qu’à lire les commentaires ici.
Je n’ai rien à ajouter de plus.
“Ils” sont des boulets mais ça n’explique pas vraiment en quoi l’instance dans sa globalité est nuisible.
Ca devient un peu bizarre parce que
- tu dénonces un comportement problématique
- ils viennent critiquer des accusations sans fondement
- ces critiques deviennent les preuves de comportement problématique
Je ne dis pas qu’ils n’ont pas de comportement problématiques, mais pour que la décision soit prise de manière objective, ce serait mieux que tu donnes 2-3 exemples d’ailleurs que de ce fil.
Hexbear qui nie l’existence de génocide en Chine et me bannit pour ça https://hexbear.net/comment/5506443
I also support it. This crying fascist has no place in the fediverse. They’ll contribute nothing to any of our discussions and even in their tantrum post it’s just the same generic
conspiracy theories about everything being secret non-white plots against them. Why bother federating with a community that allows them?Fash are not welcome here. If you have any relevant posts to share, report them.
Hello @Cowbee@lemmy.ml,
I know you are usually quite positive about hexbear, what do you think about the comment above?
From a google translate of the post, it looks like general vague slander from OP, even other instance users are asking for examples from OP.
The linked post is ableist, it uses the word MAGA---- as a derogatory term, and there are conspiracy theories about CPC connection, as well as general anticommunism, which is linked to fascism historically (I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds).
Yeah, it has been pointed out below indeed.
On the other hand, while OP should indeed provide answers, why would HappyBadger accuse this instance of being fascist? OP only made a proposition, and other instance members immediately asked for evidence to support that proposal.
You could ask me directly instead of whatever this is.
I accused this user of being a fascist. If 12 people are seated at a table with 1 fascist, tell me how many fascists are seated at that table.
This user is a fascist because they’re doing the same generic anticommunism routine that all of the right-wing forums do. Create an anticommunist hysteria around a nonsensical boogeyman, widen the net as the next person they disagree with is also part of the sneaky non-white conspiracy against them, ratchet the community rightward. That specific process is why reddit is reddit. If someone’s doing the same old trick on the Fediverse, I don’t care if it’s this forum with 8 monthly users I’ve never seen before or Lemmy.world/Lemm.ee with fresh content feeds. It attracts the same people and ends in the same place.
This goober thinks they’re being gangstalked by Russian spies because someone on the internet disagreed with 𝓉𝒽𝑒𝒾𝓇 𝓅𝑜𝓈𝒾𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃. Before you clutch your pearls about me calling them a fascist, the first question you should be asking is what that position is and what’s so offensive about the Hexbear stance on it. Generally if we hate someone or something there’s a pretty good reason for it.
Tbh, your agressive terminally online ketamine fulled diatribe does not help in giving a good picture of the instance you’re defending.
Luckily, being a tanky ironically or not is not enough to warrant de-federating from an instance.
ketamine fulled diatribe
Everyone that disagrees with me must be on drugs or a russian puppet or mentally ill.
Fuck all the way off. Go ahead defederate, clearly nothing of value is lost.
You’ve convinced everyone with an attention span too short to read their comment and believe they can get the gist by reading the shorter response.
Anyone who actually read their comment and your description rightly see you as cowardly, stupid, and unhinged.
Your backhanded way of avoiding an argument is to paint their comment in a certain light and ignore its content. I haven’t seen anyone say this obvious truth out loud yet so I will.
Your backhanded way of avoiding an argument is to paint their comment in a certain light and ignore its content. I haven’t seen anyone say this obvious truth out loud yet so I will.
The point is that there is no argument in the first place, no one here intends to defederate from hexbear, and you and your mates coming here aggressively and acting like unhinged assholes unprompted in a meta-instance discussion does not help.
This post is just OP having his jimmies rumbled and asking if because of it if can cut one of the oldest instance from our fedlist.
Anyone who actually read their comment and your description rightly see you as cowardly, stupid, and unhinged.
Ah oui quand même
Everyone I don’t agree with is on drugs (which makes them an inferior person not worth listening to), a definitely-not-fascist bedtime story for smug internet liberals.
To be fair I’d love to write ketamine-fueled rants but it costs like $500 for a dose here. The best I can offer is coffee and sometimes-cannabis-fueled.
Not only do I disagree with OP and therefore agree with with your mate, but I don’t have any issue with drug use.
My issue is with the fact that ketamine fulled drivel is not the best way to communicate with people and be correctly understood, speaking from experience.
Tbh, your agressive terminally online ketamine fulled diatribe does not help in giving a good picture of the instance you’re defending.
Luckily, being a tanky ironically or not is not enough to warrant de-federating from an instance.
I already said I want to defederate with you. You get a pass on engaging with this comment because English is your second language.
You’re not leaving me, I’m leaving you!
Tbh, your agressive terminally online ketamine fulled diatribe does not help in giving a good picture of the instance you’re defending.
Luckily, being a tanky ironically or not is not enough to warrant de-federating from an instance.
👍
tErMiNaLlY OnLiNe
kinda yeah
You could ask me directly instead of whatever this is.
I asked Cowbee because we had been discussing recently how interactions between Hexbear and other instances sometimes play out, so I thought it would be relevant to have their perspective on this example.
About the rest of your arguments, seems to have been addressed in this comment: https://hexbear.net/post/3694795/5510986
Even without talking about possible links with CCP, Kremlin etc…
Explain this rhetorical trick to me.
The linked post is ableist, it uses the word MAGA---- as a derogatory term, and there are conspiracy theories about CPC connection, as well as general anticommunism, which is linked to fascism historically (I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds).
The comment accused the user of fascism, not necessarily the instance.
Hello,
Thank you for commenting here.
The linked post is there for context, no decision was made at the time, we remained federated with hexbear. We are going to ask the author of that post to edit it.For OP, not sure if things got lost in translation, but their point was that “Even without talking about possible links with CCP, Kremlin etc… I think that, in my humble opinion, their behavior and their ways of brigading and defaming an opinion that diverges only slightly from their current of thought, sincerely goes against the state of mind of our community on this instance.”
So the CPC theories are irrelevant, as OP is strictly referring about brigading
Not sure why this deserves to be qualified as fascist.
I have no interest in debating the broader issue, but your bolding here is silly:
Even without talking about possible links with CCP, Kremlin etc…
The idea of us being connected to either group is a harebrained conspiracy theory, so I think speaking of it as though it is credible while saying you won’t talk about it is classic apophasis, i.e. a rhetorical device for making insinuations about something you want to denigrate while dodging responsibility for doing so.
Do you think things would have happened differently if OP has just said “I think that, in my humble opinion, their behavior and their ways of brigading and defaming an opinion that diverges only slightly from their current of thought, sincerely goes against the state of mind of our community on this instance” ?
That adds clarification. My understanding is that interaction between this instance and Hexbear is limited to begin with due to the French language barrier, ergo brigading doesn’t make sense as a defederation reason, but this isn’t my instance. I do have a Hexbear account, so obviously I am pro-Hexbear.
Not sure why this deserves to be qualified as fascist.
Fascism and anticommunism are twins, I recommend checking out the book I linked.
Fascism and anticommunism are twins, I recommend checking out the book I linked.
It’s been a while that I’ve read it but iirc that’s not what is described in the book due to the difference in intent.
Anticommunism is born from the ruling/fascist adjacent class to misled less politicized people by manufacturing false consciousness. While anticommunism materialistically helps capitalism and fascism, this is not the intent of the anticommunists, while it is the overt goal of the fascists.
A dumbass being anticommunist because of gaslighting is fundamentally different from someone being an actual fascist. The former will still be able to change his mind, the latter won’t because it’s usually coming from it’s material interest.
Saying they are twins is not only a misleading, but it also hides the different mechanisms between anticommunism and fascism.
Oh! Let me guess what your problem with that comment is!
“Pointing out racism is uncivil and deserves undivided scorn”
My guess is influenced by the fact that there isn’t much else to have a problem with
What are you whining about specifically? What about that comment isn’t to your liking?
lol
these people are living in a pre-hog society. we have come to enlighten them
