L’année dernière le sujet a été abordés par @AlexisFR@jlai.lu et je souhaite relancé l’idée de dé-fédérer de cette instance.
Je navigue depuis quelque temps sans bloquer la moindre instances question de simuler un peu l’expérience de quelqu’un qui rejoint le fediverse via l’instance jlai.lu.
Les posts qui apparaissent dans le fil et le comportement de la plupart des usagers de cette instance pollue tout simplement l’expérience Lemmy.
Même sans parler de possible liens avec CCP, Kremlin etc… je pense que, à mon humble avis, leur comportement et leur façons de brigader et de diffamer une opinion qui ne diverge que d’à peine d’un poil de leur courant de penser, va sincèrement à l’encontre de l’état d’esprit de notre communauté sur cette instance.
Je me suis opposé sans vraiment me prononcer l’année dernière à une dé-fédération (étant donné qu’ils ne sont pas francophone et que j’aime bien le drama inter-instances de temps temps) mais leurs prises de positions en permanence ahurissantes et (en pesant mes mots au maximum) d’une flagrante dissonance cognitive je dois dire que trop c’est trop.
Je pense sincèrement que malgré le fait nos intéractions soit assez minimes avec cette instance je pense que sur le long terme leur influence est nocive et que, dans l’idée de garder une certaines sérénité pour les personnes et futures personnes qui utiliseront cette instance, qu’il y ai une dé-fédération de cette instance de la notre.
Hello @Cowbee@lemmy.ml,
I know you are usually quite positive about hexbear, what do you think about the comment above?
From a google translate of the post, it looks like general vague slander from OP, even other instance users are asking for examples from OP.
The linked post is ableist, it uses the word MAGA---- as a derogatory term, and there are conspiracy theories about CPC connection, as well as general anticommunism, which is linked to fascism historically (I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds).
Yeah, it has been pointed out below indeed.
On the other hand, while OP should indeed provide answers, why would HappyBadger accuse this instance of being fascist? OP only made a proposition, and other instance members immediately asked for evidence to support that proposal.
The linked post is ableist, it uses the word MAGA---- as a derogatory term, and there are conspiracy theories about CPC connection, as well as general anticommunism, which is linked to fascism historically (I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds).
The comment accused the user of fascism, not necessarily the instance.
Hello,
Thank you for commenting here.
The linked post is there for context, no decision was made at the time, we remained federated with hexbear. We are going to ask the author of that post to edit it.
For OP, not sure if things got lost in translation, but their point was that “Even without talking about possible links with CCP, Kremlin etc… I think that, in my humble opinion, their behavior and their ways of brigading and defaming an opinion that diverges only slightly from their current of thought, sincerely goes against the state of mind of our community on this instance.”
So the CPC theories are irrelevant, as OP is strictly referring about brigading
Not sure why this deserves to be qualified as fascist.
I have no interest in debating the broader issue, but your bolding here is silly:
The idea of us being connected to either group is a harebrained conspiracy theory, so I think speaking of it as though it is credible while saying you won’t talk about it is classic apophasis, i.e. a rhetorical device for making insinuations about something you want to denigrate while dodging responsibility for doing so.
Do you think things would have happened differently if OP has just said “I think that, in my humble opinion, their behavior and their ways of brigading and defaming an opinion that diverges only slightly from their current of thought, sincerely goes against the state of mind of our community on this instance” ?
Citation dont je partage la pensée en lisant ce thread mdr, quelle bande de bachi-bouzouks
Attention, toi aussi tu fais parti de l’instance facho, c’est bien connu 😂
On passe notre temps à parler de sujets de gauche, à promouvoir les initiatives de gauche, à critiquer Macron, le RN et toute la clique, mais les mecs ils débarquent et hop, ils savent tout. Franchement ça me fume comment c’est dingue.
Je devrais tag l’utilisateur avec Gauche dans son nom, il apprécierait sûrement.
Après attention, bachi-bouzouk -> le Capitaine Haddock -> Hergé -> le Congo, cqfd!
Enfin…
I think there are multiple things one can complain about, I was simply objecting to your minimizing one of them. I think even within that modified statement there is malicious (or perhaps self-victimizing) mischaracterization, but I don’t feel like arguing about the other statements as others can probably do just as good a job and have more enthusiasm than I do for endlessly re-addressing the same complaints, which increasingly feels to me like the main dealing Hexbear has with liberal comms.
If they had leveled the standard online forum slapfight nothingburger charges, but with slightly different wording? No, probably not.
That adds clarification. My understanding is that interaction between this instance and Hexbear is limited to begin with due to the French language barrier, ergo brigading doesn’t make sense as a defederation reason, but this isn’t my instance. I do have a Hexbear account, so obviously I am pro-Hexbear.
Fascism and anticommunism are twins, I recommend checking out the book I linked.
It’s been a while that I’ve read it but iirc that’s not what is described in the book due to the difference in intent.
Anticommunism is born from the ruling/fascist adjacent class to misled less politicized people by manufacturing false consciousness. While anticommunism materialistically helps capitalism and fascism, this is not the intent of the anticommunists, while it is the overt goal of the fascists.
A dumbass being anticommunist because of gaslighting is fundamentally different from someone being an actual fascist. The former will still be able to change his mind, the latter won’t because it’s usually coming from it’s material interest.
Saying they are twins is not only a misleading, but it also hides the different mechanisms between anticommunism and fascism.
Fascism is Capitalism in decay. As Capitalism decays, Communist sentiment rises, and Capitalism employs its defensive mechanism, fascism, against it. The largest sources of anticommunism come from the same place as fascism, they aren’t the same, but they are twins. That’s my point.
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MAGA---- is an English slur already, so I am leaning more towards slur, but we will see.
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Who could have thought that on a french instance, you’d find french terms and formulas.
A mystery for the ages.
Looks like I was right after all.
A mystery for the ages indeed!
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Guess that clears it up.
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In English, MAGA---- is an established, frequently used ableist slur. The French may have carried it over, I wouldn’t know, regardless of the French language.
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You could ask me directly instead of whatever this is.
I accused this user of being a fascist. If 12 people are seated at a table with 1 fascist, tell me how many fascists are seated at that table.
This user is a fascist because they’re doing the same generic anticommunism routine that all of the right-wing forums do. Create an anticommunist hysteria around a nonsensical boogeyman, widen the net as the next person they disagree with is also part of the sneaky non-white conspiracy against them, ratchet the community rightward. That specific process is why reddit is reddit. If someone’s doing the same old trick on the Fediverse, I don’t care if it’s this forum with 8 monthly users I’ve never seen before or Lemmy.world/Lemm.ee with fresh content feeds. It attracts the same people and ends in the same place.
This goober thinks they’re being gangstalked by Russian spies because someone on the internet disagreed with 𝓉𝒽𝑒𝒾𝓇 𝓅𝑜𝓈𝒾𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃. Before you clutch your pearls about me calling them a fascist, the first question you should be asking is what that position is and what’s so offensive about the Hexbear stance on it. Generally if we hate someone or something there’s a pretty good reason for it.
Tbh, your agressive terminally online ketamine fulled diatribe does not help in giving a good picture of the instance you’re defending.
Luckily, being a tanky ironically or not is not enough to warrant de-federating from an instance.
👍
Je suis sûr une instance où il y a pleins de communistes et anarchistes et franchement, c’est toujours LA KETAMINE
Ils adorent ça je comprends pas. Je te promets, traîne un peu avec eux et tu verras que la kétamine est leur carburant.
Pas de problème avec ça mais c’est trop drôle ahaha. Ça les rend imprévisibles et parfois ils font vraiment preuve de mauvaise fois.
J’ai jamais eu de problèmes avec eux donc je ne sais pas si c’est juste une chambre d’écho honnêtement !
You’ve convinced everyone with an attention span too short to read their comment and believe they can get the gist by reading the shorter response.
Anyone who actually read their comment and your description rightly see you as cowardly, stupid, and unhinged.
Your backhanded way of avoiding an argument is to paint their comment in a certain light and ignore its content. I haven’t seen anyone say this obvious truth out loud yet so I will.
The point is that there is no argument in the first place, no one here intends to defederate from hexbear, and you and your mates coming here aggressively and acting like unhinged assholes unprompted in a meta-instance discussion does not help.
This post is just OP having his jimmies rumbled and asking if because of it if can cut one of the oldest instance from our fedlist.
For someone now saying there isn’t an argument, you sure did use three consecutive angry adjectives in the same sentence to respond to their comment.
You’ve got quite the imbalance of nerve and self reflection, crying about people being aggressive and acting like unhinged assholes after how you just acted.
All you do is illustrate how profoundly meaningless your words are. You use the same invective to someone being reasonable as you do someone scolding you.
You should have realized that I adapt my tone to the one I respond to, by like, reading?
I don’t think we have the same definition of reasonable, might have been lost in translation I guess.
Ah oui quand même
J’ai pas vu d’aussi beau troll depuis des années. Faut dire que je suis devenu bon à les éviter mais notre pauvre admin vient de se prendre celui en plein le coin de l’œil.
“Pauvre” admin. C’est un des meilleurs ippon de jlai.lu, un Teddy Reiner, amha ça le gonfle et l’amuse 😁
Everyone I don’t agree with is on drugs (which makes them an inferior person not worth listening to), a definitely-not-fascist bedtime story for smug internet liberals.
Not only do I disagree with OP and therefore agree with with your mate, but I don’t have any issue with drug use.
My issue is with the fact that ketamine fulled drivel is not the best way to communicate with people and be correctly understood, speaking from experience.
Nah, that’s the kind of weak dodge I would use back when I was a liberal casually saying ghoulish dork shit. If you use “ur prolly on drugs lol” to dismiss the argument of someone who is speaking with perfect clarity, you’re just being a little snotty fuck looking for any excuse not to take in scary new information that might make you feel bad.
Sure bro 👍
To be fair I’d love to write ketamine-fueled rants but it costs like $500 for a dose here. The best I can offer is coffee and sometimes-cannabis-fueled.
You should try TOR marketplaces.
I already said I want to defederate with you. You get a pass on engaging with this comment because English is your second language.
You’re not leaving me, I’m leaving you!
I would have made my own post first but didn’t know you exist until this post. Then I agreed with it. A more apt analogy would be getting a random text saying “I’m breaking up with you” and replying “ok”.
An actually apt analogy would be one of your theater club mate receiving a text advising to leave the theater club because it’s full of dubious people, your mate saying “lol no”, and you sending a 10 pages pamphlet to the friend sending the text accusing them to be a fascist, completely unprompted.
Everyone that disagrees with me must be on drugs or a russian puppet or mentally ill.
Fuck all the way off. Go ahead defederate, clearly nothing of value is lost.
tErMiNaLlY OnLiNe
kinda yeah
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I asked Cowbee because we had been discussing recently how interactions between Hexbear and other instances sometimes play out, so I thought it would be relevant to have their perspective on this example.
About the rest of your arguments, seems to have been addressed in this comment: https://hexbear.net/post/3694795/5510986
Explain this rhetorical trick to me.
https://hexbear.net/post/3694795/5511100
Do you think my grandma would be a bicycle if she had tyres instead of legs?
Going back to the thing that did actually happen, take two:
Explain this rhetorical trick to me.
The correct pun is “if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike” btw
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Oh! Let me guess what your problem with that comment is!
“Pointing out racism is uncivil and deserves undivided scorn”
My guess is influenced by the fact that there isn’t much else to have a problem with
What are you whining about specifically? What about that comment isn’t to your liking?