Kamala was so excited over the support of the neocons like the Cheney’s and big business she forgot to see how it’d impact her poll numbers. Now she’s endorsing hit pieces on progressive third party candidates like Jill Stein. I’m pretty sure she’s already lost this election at this point.
Jill Stein’s party is explicitly fighting to help Trump win. Stein is a pro-Trump spoiler. Voting for her is about the most self-defeating thing anyone who believes in democracy could do, short only of voting for Trump.
She’s against genocide and Democrats are losing to Trump because they haven’t earned the votes. Instead they want to shame and blame everyone but themselves for why people, including a large percentage of the Arab population are voting for Jill Stein in Michigan. Just like they blamed Bernie and Stein in 2016. I encourage everyone to go listen and learn about Jill Stein’s platform yourself without a Democrat standing over your shoulder whispering nonsense into your ear. Both parties of the duopoly have a large cult.
Jill Stein’s platform is, explicitly, not to win but to cause Harris to lose. Harris losing means Trump winning. Trump winning will be even worse for Gaza (and Ukraine, the US, and the rest of the world).
If your red line is Gaza, but your refusal to cross that line will make things in Gaza worse, it is straightforwardly the case that your tactics are wrong. ‘I cannot condone X, so I’m going to do something that can only make X even worse’ is not a position you can hold.
First, that is not her platform and you’re just making up and repeating MSM Democrat propaganda. Second, Kamala is part of the current administration that has had the ability to take a different stance on Gaza. Stop blaming the voters and start demanding she change her position. If she loses it will be her fault and no one elses. Last, people voting for their preferred candidate that they think best represents them is the foundation of democracy. If you don’t like democracy then vote for Democrats or Republicans who think they don’t need to earn your vote.
Here’s a member of the Stein campaign saying they know they can’t win and want Harris to lose: ‘We are not in a position to win the White House, but we do have a real opportunity to win something historic. We could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan.’ This is straight from the Stein campaign. Not ‘MSM Democrat propaganda’ at all, but the Stein campaign itself acknowledging that they can’t win and that what they mean by ‘winning’ is Harris losing - which entails Trump winning.
Again, you can blame anyone you like for this, but if you vote for Stein, the consequences for Gazans will be worse. To do so is, per your own values, nonsensical.
Inconvenient for that user, so they didn’t respond
In fairness to the guy, he has now responded.
Your assumption is that these third party voters would be inclined to vote for Kamala if they weren’t voting for Stein. There is nothing to support that claim by you. In fact, it is the opposite. They’d be inclined to vote for Kamala if she shifted her policy positions when it comes to the war in Afghanistan. Again, you can blame anyone you like for this, but if Kamala doesn’t change her position, the consequences for Americans will be worse. To do so, is per Kamala’s “own” values, nonsensical.
I’m not assuming that you are inclined to vote for Harris - you’ve made it clear that you are not!
What I’m saying is that the course of action you’re advocating (voting for Jill Stein) can only have the opposite outcome to the one you want (because it will lead to the election of Donald Trump and a still worse situation in the Middle East). This being the case, you should reconsider your course of action.
Orrrrr, stay with me here, 50,000 people is an insignificant number of people in the context of preventing a greater war with Iran that would directly kill millions and millions of people. Trump has openly endorsed that war, so doing a thing to help elect Trump is not in any sense a strategy aimed at protecting the lives and rights of anyone in the middle east. On the other hand, standing by our ally and avoiding that war gives the western world a modicum of stability and a base of democratic governance to work with for the next hundred years. Don’t talk about the lives of anyone if you’re planning to help elect Trump because he is the actual supporter of genocide. It took Gaza one year to see 50,000 dead. You’re talking about “let’s elect a guy that wants to see 50,000 people die every week.” Shove it. You’re lying to yourself and to everyone here.
The war in Gaza has displaced what, two or three million people. A war between Israel and Iran will displace tens of millions of people. North Africa, East Africa, probably West Africa, the Mediterranean nations including Spain, France, and Italy, Greece, obviously, Eastern Europe and the Balkans, Western Asia, and South Central Asia including the Indian subcontinent. They don’t have enough stress already for you? There’s already a war refugee crisis from people fleeing war and turmoil in Syria and Yemen.
The continued stability of this massive region of the world is not worth it to you, because, let me see if this is right, you’re so enraged at Kamala Harris for following decades of American foreign policy in the face of 50,000 people being killed by a country she’s not in charge of?
I’m sorry, that’s totally idiotic and short sighted.
And just to add to your point: it’s not hypothetical that Trump would destabilise the Middle East, because he actually did so in his first term by giving de facto recognition to Jerusalem as the Israeli capital and by unilaterally tanking the Iran deal in exchange for nothing. The current situation is already partially Trump’s fault and, as you say, he will only make it worse if he wins.
What an insane statement completely dehumanizing the people of Gaza. No, enabling Israel to genocide Gaza is not a ‘necessary evil’ or for the ‘greater good’ to prevent a larger war. There is no justification for genocide. Ever. It’s so gross to see this kind of sentiment upvoted, especially on Lemmy.
Israel is escalating to continue it’s genocidal war. The US has enabled Israel for an entire year, which has galvanized Israel to expand it’s war without any repercussions. The US failing to reign Israel in is directly responsible for the escalation.
Israel ending it’s genocide in Gaza has been the one way to avoid regional escalations, and it’s the one thing Israel has repeatedly evaded.
For the past 12 months, the world has watched in horror as Israel has laid waste to Gaza in what Palestinians and many experts consider a genocidal military campaign—one of the most lethal and destructive bombing campaigns in history—armed and funded by the U.S. government.
This support for Israel violates both U.S. and international law. It also goes against the wishes of a majority of Americans. Polls consistently show that most Americans want a ceasefire in Gaza and to stop weapons transfers to Israel (including 77% of Democrats) amid the death and destruction.
Biden Can End His Failure in the Middle East—if He Listens to the American People
As president of the United States, Biden cannot afford to back Israel’s total freedom of action in Gaza. He cannot assume that Israeli aims fully coincide with those of the United States. As Biden himself had noted, this is the most extreme government in Israel’s history, with prominent Jewish supremacist ministers whose stated aims conflict with both U.S. interests and values and seek an opportunity to expel Palestinians from what they see as the land of Israel, including Gaza. And Netanyahu is known to have attempted over the years to draw the United States into a war with Iran, something that’s decidedly not in the United States’ interests
Biden’s dangerous stance on the war in Israel and Gaza
Plenty of officials and analysts suspect Netanyahu’s main motivation for staying in office is that he is hoping his far-right allies can help protect him from having to face charges ranging from fraud to bribery in multiple cases, including one in which he’s accused of inappropriately accepting gifts from wealthy businessmen. Netanyahu denies wrongdoing.
The US Is Dealing With an Israeli Leader Who’s Losing Control
Former Israeli PM ‘suspects’ Netanyahu wants to draw the US into conflict with Iran
Armed groups throughout the region, including Hezbollah, have long declared that their military actions are directly tied to the ongoing genocide of Gaza. Despite U.S. efforts to frame Lebanon as an isolated front, Hezbollah has made clear there will be no deescalation without a cease-fire in Gaza. Only an end to the assault on Gaza can prevent further escalation.
There Is Still a Way to Prevent a Regional Middle East War: a Cease-Fire in Gaza
Oh sweet summer child with indequate media literacy.
At any rate after a year of the horrid and most atrocious genocidal madness, all the observations and evidence, and presuming that every sensational claim and all the buzzwords are 100% true, that all the bombing was indiscriminate, that the imminent famine was imminent, all of it…99% of Gaza is still alive.
Maybe you’re right and my calculus is off.
!RemindMe in 99 years.
Two. Party. System.
Any response that’s not a detailed description of how to reform our undemocratic “first past the post” system before promoting a 3rd-party candidate is literally trying to get Trump re-elected. And they know it…
I didn’t down vote you but I just did. You do know calling me a Russian asset which you know is a lie is both defamation and against the rules here? Maybe I can have the mod facilitate getting your contact information if they don’t want to enforce the rules against people acting like cult members and I’ll show you how much of an idiot you are in court.
What are you talking about? How has she been “so excited?”
I’ve seen a very tepid reaction from Harris. Stop trying to make her out to be like some Debbie Wasserman Schultz neocon. There’s no comparison.
Everytime she’s asked about the Cheney’s she glees over their support and praises them. I don’t know what planet you live on.
If you’re not going to vote for Harris, I have some advice for you:
This doesn’t make sense. Whether they sit out or vote 3rd party doesn’t matter. The strategic reason for GOP financiers supporting a 3rd party candidate is to draw votes away from their opponent. A sit-out or a vote for 3rd party achieves the same thing.
Encouraging people to sit out is just encouraging people to disengage from the entire process, which will enforce a trend that helps GOP candidates.
This person wants us to vote for Trump.
So your job is now to tell people in a democracy that the shouldn’t vote for their preferred candidate. Are you sure you don’t just want fascism?
I see an awful lot of angry putting people on the defense, but let’s turn this around. What result that’s brought about by your vote for Stein creates the world that you want to see? In your world, what does the world look like on the morning of November 6th, and what have you accomplished?
Voting for Stein puts Democrats on notice that if they can’t stop serving their donors and start serving the American people, then they’ll be to blame for their loss. They need to earn people’s votes. They aren’t entitled to votes just because they aren’t the other candidate.
In all seriousness, do you think it will do that? There’s no place on a ballot to put the REASON you cast your vote, so isn’t it possible the Democrats who look at the post-mortem choose to interpret your vote in some other way?
Kamala’s poll numbers have dropped significantly. They know the reasons but so far they’d rather lose than stop the flow of AIPAC donations.
You didn’t answer my question even a little.
It’s not a difficult question.
We’ve established your action and your goal.
Your action: Voting for Jill Stein Your goal: To force Democrats to remove corporate interests from their platform and selection process
I’m with you. Now it’s a question.
Do you, in your heart of hearts, rubber meets the road, believe the action you are going to take will lead to the goal you want?
It’s a simple yes or no. Do you?
If you’re going to tell people to vote for Donald, I’d rather you and anyone you convince to sit this one out. Since voting for your preferred candidate undermines any chance we have to make progress in the U.S.
I’ve never told anyone to vote for Donald, but you’re certainly helping Donald win by attacking a third party candidate, who by your logic is stealing more votes from Trump than Kamala.
Lolol
Nice alt
Nice try
