• dino@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      40
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      Why is Hamas using their own people as shields? Why did the people let Hamas rule?

      • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        20
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        Why did the people let Hamas rule?

        I know you really think this is a defense of Israel, but I encourage you to actually find the answer.

          • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            2 months ago

            How about Brigadier General Yitzhak Segev, the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s.

            Oh look - a New York Times reporter saved us the trouble. Turns out that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who also corroborated this statement).

            …there’s that, and the whole military occupation to maintain an apartheid state in an open air concentration camp, the decades-long annexation campaign. You’ll be surprised to learn that people find that kind of thing upsetting.

            • dino@discuss.tchncs.de
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              2 months ago

              Thank you for providing the first real information here. But the last paragraph doesn’t sit right with me, the things hamas did is not resistance. And also you make it sound like the Palestinians didn’t chose “Hamas” but in the end you try to relativize what happened on 7th of Oct as a result of “military occupation” etc.

              So what now? Also I think its pointless to bring this up here, but seeing how people react across the world in terms of the terror atrocities, its quite clear on what side the palestianias stand on…on the wrong one. I am really sorry for people who ACTUALLY want to have a peaceful live, no matter what religion or origin.

              • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                2 months ago

                The PLO were in power, Israel knew who Hamas were, and funded their rise to power (for what reason other than to manufacture the pretext for this genocide?), they also created and maintained the conditions that would motivate and justify violent resistance, so yes - Israel are responsible for Hamas.

                In maintaining the horrible conditions I pointed to, Israel further motivated people to push back by any means necessary while giving them as little as possible to live for.

                You don’t get to tell us you want peace as you defend a genocide. You don’t get to tell us about atrocities as the IDF gleefully document dozens per day, and you don’t get to tell the people you’re genociding that they’re wrong.

                With that all clarified, what would justifiable Palestinian self-defence look like, and do those principles apply equally to Israel?

                • dino@discuss.tchncs.de
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  So basically Hamas is an inside job in order for Israel to exterminate innocent people? And the reasoning for that is…? I guess 7th October was also a self made incident?

                  • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    What’s your explanation for Israel funding the terrorists’ displacement of the secular moderates with predictable, deadly results?

                    What - you think Netanyahu cares about Israelis given his refusal of ceasefire after ceasefire and hostage exchange after hostage exchange? How quaint.

                    Seems straightforwardly clear that it was to manufacture the pretext for the current genocide.

          • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            17
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            2 months ago

            Tell me why the people of Palestine voted for hamas (almost 20 years ago by the way).

            If you don’t know, look it up. If you don’t care, that’ll explain all I need to know.

        • prof_wafflez@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          15
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          2 months ago

          Yes they can be that ignorant. Let’s stop pretending people are smart. The last 10 years has proven people are raging morons and proud of it.

          • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            I disagree - I think the majority know they’re lying, and support the genocide - they’re just cowards too gutless to say so.

            You give these monsters any sort of push, and they start using Palestinian and Hamas interchangeably which really gives the game away… keep going, and they start screaming their support for wiping Palestine off the map.