(Content warning, discussions of SA and misogyny, mods I might mention politics a bit but I hope this can be taken outside the context of politics and understood as a discussion of basic human decency)

We all know how awful Reddit was when a user mentioned their gender. Immediate harassment, DMs, etc. It’s probably improved over the years? But still awful.

Until recently, Lemmy was the most progressive and supportive of basic human dignity of communities I had ever followed. I have always known this was a majority male platform, but I have been relatively pleased to see that positive expressions of masculinity have won out.

All of that changed with the recent “bear vs man” debacle. I saw women get shouted down just for expressing their stories of being sexually abused, repeatedly harassed, dogpiled, and brigaded with downvotes. Some of them held their ground, for which I am proud of them, but others I saw driven to delete their entire accounts, presumably not to return.

And I get it. The bear thing is controversial; we can all agree on this. But that should never have resulted in this level of toxicity!

I am hoping by making this post I can kind of bring awareness to this weakness, so that we can learn and grow as a community. We need to hold one another accountable for this, or the gender gap on this site is just going to get worse.

  • yuri@pawb.social
    2·
    6 months ago

    Men are not a marginalized group. With the concerning amount of antisemitism becoming common in the US, it’s VERY bad faith to try comparing the perceived discrimination against a hypothetical man to the actual struggles of real people.

      • yuri@pawb.social
        1·
        6 months ago

        Die on whatever hill you want to, it doesn’t make it a valid comparison.

        Making judgements based on your past experiences is vastly different from doing so on cultural stereotypes. I have never pointed to stereotypes or “vibes” or anything else non-concrete. I am drawing on my lived experience to inform my opinions.

        Let’s just be explicit, are you saying rape victims are biggoted for having trauma involving men? Because that is absolutely the core of the issue here.

        • Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com
          01·
          6 months ago

          By your logic a person who gets assaulted by a black person allowed to prejudge all black people.

          I feel perfectly fine saying that’s morally wrong.

          • yuri@pawb.social
            1·
            6 months ago

            By your logic, it’s the assault victim’s fault that they have any notions at all. Trauma can manifest in all sorts of fucked up ways bud, we don’t get to choose.

            It’s whacky to say something is “morally wrong” while completely ignoring it’s cause, context, and any other relevant factors. There’s this little thing called nuance that you’ve been stomping on all this time you’ve been trying to paint me into a box.

            • Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com
              01·
              6 months ago

              I was sexually assaulted by a female family member as a child. Repeatedly. I was then made to believe that that was “fun” and to seek it out.

              My experience does not under any circumstances allow me to be a misogynist.

              I find bigotry wrong. It took a lot of years to process what happened to me at the ripe old age of six, but it was my moral responsibility to do so rather than to take the shortcut to hatred.

              • yuri@pawb.social
                1·
                6 months ago

                Never have I ever in this entire discussion said anything other than “I am cautions around men” and “It’s not wrong to feel that way”. Everything else has been me defending those two very simple statements.

                I’m very sorry that happened to you, that’s absolutely abhorrent.

                I am by no means trying to minimize your experience or compare our traumas. I will just say that I was sexually assaulted by a stranger. My circumstances haven’t changed at all since it happened. I could still be easily physically overpowered by just about any random stranger, and my experiences force me to consider that as a very real possibility.

                • Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com
                  01·
                  6 months ago

                  Victimhood does not magically bestow virtue.

                  Victimhood is not a free pass to behave immorally.

                  Victimhood is not permission to be prejudiced.

                  Victimhood does not give a person permission to hate.

                  Mistrusting half of the human population because of the genes they were born with isn’t being cautious, it’s being prejudiced.

                  • yuri@pawb.social
                    1·
                    6 months ago

                    I didn’t pretend to know what your life is like, you shouldn’t with mine. You’re asking me to trust every stranger and all I’m asking for is some empathy.

                    Here you are bestowing such judgement while berating me over being cautious. Really cementing all my preconceived notions of random strangers and reinforcing the very behavior you insist is morally wrong.

    • aStonedSanta@lemm.ee
      0·
      6 months ago

      Nah. It’s not bad faith at all. You are perceiving it that way due to external factors. But the truth of the matter is the same. Change it from Jews to Asian. Or any other group and I bet you’d never say it.

      So because you state “men are not a marginalized group”, men aren’t able to be used as a comparison as a group of people?

      Sounds like you are marginalizing men totally and are so sure of your “fact” that it clouds your judgement.

      • yuri@pawb.social
        2·
        6 months ago

        What the fuck ever dude, big apologies to all the men I offended. VERY glad I don’t know any of you clowns in real life. Good luck interacting with women.