Do you guys have good resources on how to feed your dog vegan?
There are a lot of pages online that simply say “consult an advisor” who will calculate what your dog needs. I’m not bad in maths, I could calculate it myself if I’d knew what the dog needs. I can look into commercial dog food ingrediants but there are declarations like “minerals” without any further specificiations. Moreover, I eat a huge variety in differrent vegetables and food in general, yet my dog shall always eat the same according to vegan complete feed. Moreover, I can not properly judge whether a feed is good because the information is missing.
Where does the nutritionist get his information from? There must be someone who has studied the needs of a dog based on size and breed and created a formula such that you can calculate the servings.
I’ve looked into books on amazon and the comments are horrible. There’s nothing on libgen and google scholar doesn’t yield appropriate results.
Look up “obligate carnivore”. And stop committing animal cruelty.
Dogs aren’t, cats are. But I agree. Dogs can’t consent to this insanity. This will be tough on the dog. If you can’t handle that the dog isn’t “vegan” then please give it to someone who can properly care for it. No dog deserves that.
Please update to a scientific position rather than assuming
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)
“However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”
I’m pretty sure that the entire scientific community would agree that dogs can’t consent to a vegan diet. We don’t force humans without consent, why would you force a dog to do that?
Dogs can’t consent to nonvegan kibble, leashes, living in houses, and countless other things
That’s correct, but dogs don’t naturally eat a “vegan” diet, and there is evidence all over the place as to whether or not that’s good or safe for them. I would tend to be ok with housing a dog, but not with what is essentially still an experimental diet.
So far the evidence is that as long as it’s nutritionally complete, it’s safe. See the review I linked above
I’ve seen reviews all saying things every which way. Please don’t take it personally when no one trusts your pet review.
Please update to a scientific position rather than assuming
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)
“However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”
Ahh well, guess I’m blocking this community. Full of wingnuts, even on the mod team it seems.
Good call. I’d do the same seeing that mods removed any critical comment to an obviously very controversial topic. If there is no space for critical conversation, there is no use to the conversation at all.
Enjoy being a science denier
Dogs are facultative carnivores.
Get a rabbit or a guinea pig if you want to feed your pet vegan. This is cruel and your dog will suffer.
I honestly don’t know why people who want herbivorous pets choose to get dogs or cats. Rabbits and guinea pigs are lovely creatures. Rodents, birds, and certain lizards all make very good vegetarian companions, so why not choose one of those?
I have a personal love for tiny screaming dinosaurs, but having also kept rabbits and guinea pigs I’d honestly recommend them.
Please update to a scientific position rather than assuming
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)
“However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”
Damn this post got chewed up hard despite being on a vegan community
Don’t. It’s animal abuse.
Please update to a scientific position rather than assuming
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)
“However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”
Overall, it seems the jury is still out on whether feeding our carnivorous four-legged friends vegan diets is actually safe. What we can be certain about is that both strong pro- or anti vegan pet feeding arguments are potentially misguided, and not backed by evidence. For now, owners committed to feeding their pets a vegan diet should take a cautious approach. Use a complete and balanced commercial vegan diet formulation, and schedule regular health checks with a veterinarian.
There is an urgent need for large-scale population-based studies to further investigate this question, with a particular focus on assessing the dietary aspects cited to be of particular concern, e.g., taurine and folate. For guardians wishing to feed their pets vegan diets at the current time, based on the available evidence it is recommended that commercially produced vegan diets are used since these are less likely to lead to nutrient imbalances.
“In the few studies that measured health directly through examining the animals or running laboratory tests, there was little evidence of adverse health impacts from vegan pet diets. Nutrient levels were generally within normal range, no heart or eye abnormalities were detected, and body and coat condition were normal.”
“However, it’s important to note these studies often involved low numbers of animals, with vegan diets only being fed to animals for a few weeks – so deficiency may not have had time to develop. Furthermore, the study designs were often ones considered less reliable in evidence-based practice, for example with no control groups used as a comparison.”
“For now, owners committed to feeding their pets a vegan diet should take a cautious approach. Use a complete and balanced commercial vegan diet formulation, and schedule regular health checks with a veterinarian.”
For me personally I wouldn’t try to keep a dog and especially a cat on a vegan diet until there’s more robust evidence to say that it would be safe to do so.
Thanks for your input. There’s enough evidence for the akc https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/nutrition/dogs-can-adapt-to-a-vegan-diet/
Dogs prefer meat, but a vegan or vegetarian diet is possible with the right supplements.
Which means there’s also enough evidence for me. Peta may be biased but if you believe their work is good, you may also quote them https://www.peta.org/living/animal-companions/vegetarian-cats-dogs/
Can Dogs and Cats Be Vegan?
Yes! With the right planning and care, your dog or cat can be vegan. Of course, it’s important to ensure that their nutritional requirements are met.
Like with a human vegan diet, if you do it wrong, it’s bad. But if you feed yourself or your dog wrongly with meat it’s also bad.
Both those links don’t inspire confidence, neither are written by scientists or universities as far as I can tell.
The article that’s being quoted through this thread comes with a lot of caveats to it and the other article I found mentions the poor quality of the studies mentioned in said article.
The risks and lack of robust data should be emphasised and the extra effort and monitoring a pet owner would need to be engaged in to make sure their pet stays healthy be first and foremost when talking about vegan pet diets.
I would personally be happy if pets can have vegan diets, but their safety should come first.
Edit: Accidentally said op was quoting an article throughout this thread when a mod has been doing so. I edited that to be more specific sorry for the mistake.
The problem with scientific papers is that I could provide you one, or even more but I am not (yet) in the psoition to judge which paper is reliable. There are too many parties involed and it depends upon the financee of the paper. Therefore I provided the link to akc which depends on scientific and general believes. They have no direct incentive in one or the other stance. One of their goals is to take care of dogs. If it was questionable, they should reflect it in their stance. They do not reflect it, hence there is not enough evidence against it, as long as you take proper care of the dog.
One paper supporting a vegan diet
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0265662
But:
This research and its publication open access was funded by food awareness organisation ProVeg International
That’s why I’d take the position of being cautious and waiting for better quality studies.
There really needs to be more studies done and then a meta study to really nail this down. Or at least some high quality well reviewed studies.
That’s alright. Right now, I’m curious enough about the nutritional needs of the dog and how a vegan diet for dogs work
It doesn’t work. You’ll hurt your dog.
Why even risk it?
Ah yes, the carnists coming into the comments in good faith ™️ to explain how the vegans are actually animal abusers never ceases to amaze me! Please kindly continue commenting so that you can be permanently banned from the community!
Edit: Also, OP getting reported twice for “animal abuse”… seriously the moderator reports are all carnists reporting vegans on the vegan community 🤯
vegan dog food exists, don’t listen to the carnists here. the technology is evolving and people are in denial
Just because something exists, doesn’t mean you doing them good. Stop owning animals who RELY on meat to survive. Get a rabbit.
https://www.newsweek.com/couple-fed-puppies-vegan-food-banned-owning-pets-fined-1589161
Thanks!
At first I thought people were downvoting because I mentioned libgen but then the first comments appeared and I quickly understood that there’s a lack of information. I didn’t know that it was that bad prior to this thread.
Dogs are carnivores and are not well-equipped to handle vegetables. Feeding an animal an inappropriate diet without the guidance of a veterinarian is abuse, period dot end of story (https://www.theveterinarynurse.com/content/professional/the-legal-ethical-and-welfare-implications-of-feeding-vegan-diets-to-dogs-and-cats). Quit abusing the animals you’re meant to be taking care of.
Dogs are literally omnivorous lol
What the fuck? Dogs can’t do vegan. Don’t you dare.
Please do not abuse your pet. Dogs are not herbivores, and will suffer if subjected to it. You’ll find a lot of resources from idiots stating otherwise, but the science does not lie, and there have been a ton of malnourished suffering dogs because people keep trying this.
Dogs cannot properly digest vegetation, which is why 70%+ of their diet needs to be meat based.
Please update to a scientific position rather than assuming
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)
“However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”
Thanks! I’ll read this with though.
😊😊😊
Animal abuse to the highest degree. If you force your dog to be vegan or whatever you don’t deserve a dog.
What a disgusting post.
WHY VEGAN DIETS WILL KILL YOUR CAT (AND SICKEN YOUR DOG)
Can Dogs Be Vegan? Here’s What Veterinarians Have to Say.
The legal, ethical and welfare implications of feeding vegan diets to dogs and cats
If you feed a dog a vegan diet your are an animal abuser.
your second link lmao: “Dr. Cailin Heinze, a board-certified veterinary nutritionist, and professor at Tufts University’s Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine writes: “Most dogs can do quite well on a carefully designed vegan diet that meets all of their nutritional needs.””
keep in mind that a well formulated, “carefully designed” vegan kibble is just as “bad” as non-vegan kibble, so unless you’re against all kibble, nutritionally complete vegan kibble is fine. Animal abuse is needlessly killing and hurting animals, not finding ways to avoid it
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)
“However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”
Surprising misinformation here. What happened?
Dogs and cats can be healthy vegans. But you do need to plan their nutrition if you cook yourself
What happened?
I went to bed and didn’t lock the post. I’m the only active mod and my timezone seems to make it so that I am sleeping during these kinds of posts.
Not sure we should lock posts. Dude had a legitimate question.
Unless we just add this info to the sidebar?
We shouldn’t have to lock posts. I’ve appointed new mods such that there shouldn’t be any issues when I’m not watching.
Thanks
I’m not 100% certain, but I think if you contact a food company they should be able to provide that info?
https://petfoodshop.com/collections/for-dogs/products/gourmet-fondue-dog-kibble?variant=44655458124060 evolution dog food for example has the guaranteed analyses, ingredients, and food amounts based on dog size on the label in one of the pictures
As far as sources on the ideal amounts of different minerals to cross reference with the guaranteed analyses, I’m not sure, sorry I couldn’t be more help
Thank you! No worries, everything helps :) My knowledge has impact on many dogs each year, I won’t quickly jump to conclusions.
Looks like lemmy isn’t ready for this yet. I’m looking on reddit for better information on this. Good luck guys!
https://www.reddit.com/r/veganpets/ and especially this is gold https://www.reddit.com/r/veganpets/wiki/faq/ and https://balance.it/
Dogs aren’t ready for it either. Please don’t do this so someone who cannot consent to it.
Sorry your post got shit on so hard, it’s a shame people just jump to conclusions based on general ideas rather than recognizing we have the technology to pretty easily feed even obligate carnivores a vegan diet they thrive on
Thank you for your kind words!
Looks like you don’t know what a carnivore is.
“I didn’t get the answer that I wanted so I’m going to look for an echo bunker that will validate my beliefs and justify my animal abuse.”
Dogs are facultative carnivores.
You are trying to justify animal abuse
Be advised, I’m the only active mod on this community and I just saw this thread. !vegan@lemmy.ml has quicker mod action (in my opinion) as well as less carnist trolling
Thank you very much for jumping in. I just tried to ignore everything. Your actions make me happy to be on lemmy.
I wasn’t here to discuss if it is possible or not, but how. And noone provided a reasonable response which would’ve lead to a real discussion. If someone wants to discuss it with somebody, they can gladly take it to the akc https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/nutrition/dogs-can-adapt-to-a-vegan-diet/
I’ll move to that sublemmy, thank you, again!
It’s not even about ‘carnist’ crap. It’s straight up neglect to deny your CARNIVOROUS animal meat.
