“The Ocean Cleanup” is a great effort and I support their mission wholeheartedly. BUT looking at the bigger picture; it seems completely asinine to fish garbage put of the ocean and call that the solution to pollution, instead of preventing it from getting there in the first place. This is not meant as a criticism of “The Ocean Cleanup”, but of global society in general. One minute you see them removing the Pacific garbage patch and the next you see whole rivers covered in plastic waste flowing out into the ocean from certain countries.
Edit: Fishing it out of the rivers before it enters the ocean is also a good effort. But it doesn’t address the underlying problem any better than cleaning ot out of the ocean. Also; some people seem to think I’m bashing “The Ocean Cleanup” and similar organisations. I’m very much not. They do great, necessary work. I’m just frustrated that said work is needed, and more importantly; that it doesn’t seem to be on track to stop being needed anytime in the near-ish future.
They are doing similar tryouts in Big Rivers now too. But that’s a lot harder than cleaning what’s already stagnant.
The sheer force of the water and waste is difficult to hold in place with nets. But they’re definitely working on it.
I trust programs like this and admire the work. It’s a good thing for life in general to get rid of that shit. It’s just abysmal that companies still use so much plastic for everything.
No doubt it’s good work, but the plastic shouldn’t get in there in the first place. That was my only point.
it shouldn’t, but realistically it will and given that it’s good to be able to clean it up
Earth will survive and heal
Climate is a thing where no matter how big your solution is, it’s only part of a larger solution-cluster.
We need it all, and then the rest of it, too.
[…] the next you see whole rivers covered in plastic waste flowing out into the ocean from certain countries.
Which is why they’re working on exactly that
Same issue though; it shouldn’t end up in the rivers either. The rivers were just an example in relation to the ocean patches specifically. Plastics shouldn’t end up in the environment at all. Catching it a step earlier, is still treating the symptom instead of the cause.
Except they’re not calling it the solution, just a remedy to a literally growing problem. Even if people stopped polluting the ocean in an instant, you’d still have to clean up the patch. Now, they’re taking the initiative to go clean it up as best they can, which is a heck of a lot more than the average person lemme tell ya that much.
The majority of the great Pacific garbage patch material - over 75% of it - comes from fishing and aquaculture activities. I’m sure some of it is accidents or storm related, but I also have a strong suspicion that a good percentage of it is from China’s ghost fishing fleets - the ones they deny exist, that over-fish and poach other countries’ waters, and that cut loose their nets and pretend innocence it approached.
Even if all pollution stopped today we still have to clean up the patch.
Yes. That is why I said that I support them.
It’s important to celebrate the wins that we have in order to build some tailwind behind the general effort.
We should still recognize how far we have to go, of course, but celebration matters.
Who said it was a solution?
No one specifically, but in a lot of cases it feels like certain interest groups, tout projects like this as the be all and end all of solving the issue. I just fear for a sentiment where people go: “Look at what “The Ocean Cleanup” is doing! We don’t need to abolish single use plastics. Any that end up in the environment is simply picked up!” That is of course a bit of a caricature, but at this point my trust in humanity as a whole, is not very high…
The kind of people who care about plastic at all don’t seem the type to say “oh well we can clean it up go wild boys”
No of course not. It’s the people who have an interest in keeping plastic around, who I fear might use an excuse like that.
People who don’t care about plastic pollution aren’t really the audience of efforts to combat it.
Or one could view it as regardless of efforts at future prevention, we still need to pick up from the past. If we stopped every scrap of plastic in production today that pile of junk would still be floating about for the next millennia.
They are working on exactly that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wdKoIjdgSE
Yeah. All product packaging should be paper based.
Where do they say anything like that? I’ve been following them very closely for years and they’ve always been super transparent that there isn’t one solution. They also do a lot of work to prevent trash from getting to the ocean in the first place.
There are similar groups with near identical solutions for tackling “problem” River that are some of the worst offenders of plastic pollution.
Ultimately there is still a problem in the ocean, and to some extent, it is inevitable until we have a realistic solution for plastics.
your reply is classic
miss the forest for the trees
How in the heck do you mean? I’m happy for the accomplishment. It’s excellent work. I’m just angry that said work is necessary in the first place.
I would not have had the opinion that you are happy about the solution. Your reply is basically “not appreciate a larger situation, problem, etc., because one is considering only a few parts of it” (the origin). We cannot fix the reason the problem is there. IT IS. Fixing the problem is the only reality and now that is within reach. Complaining about the origin is missing the point.
If I can add to the discussion here. Problem is the the solution isn’t a solution. Heck the headline is a lie because the first sentence is “If the project raises 7.5 billion dollars”. The article makes people feel like the problem is solved already but it’s not. And to say that we cannot fix the origin of the problem is just not true. To think so is to actually miss the point of the project which is that monumental problems CAN be solved, but cleaning the patch isn’t done and it won’t be the end of the challenge.
We will not be able to go back in time and stop all the plastic from being created. We can’t stop the motion of the ocean that puts it together in the current configuration.
We can’t stop the human activity that causes plastic to end up in the ocean.
We can’t stop the production of plastic.
We can’t demand that governments force their population to behave in specific ways.
The issue is what it is. We can only deal with the situation as it is. The article details a plan and a possible conclusion in 10 years if everything works out. That doesn’t make me feel like it’s solved.
We cannot fix the fact that the patch is there no. But we most certainly can fix continuing supply of garbage to it. That is exactly the argument I put forth in a different reply. “Oh well; we can just fish out the garbage, so we don’t need to fix the underlying issue of single use plastics.” Complaining about the origin of the pollution is very much not missing the point.
I very much doubt the goal of an organisation like “The Ocean Cleanup” is to get to pick up garbage in perpetuity. I would very much hope, that its end goal is to outlive its own usefulness.
There are groups working to cleanup river plastic before it becomes ocean plastic.
It shouldn’t be river plastic either though. That’s just pushing the problem back a step instead of solving it outright. It’s a step in the right direction, but it shouldn’t end up in the rivers either…
You’re not wrong.
There will always be the lost who care not for fellow man. I can only hope those that do care, outnumber those who don’t.
Be kind to one another
Also, what are we gonna do with the trash? Moving it isn’t gonna magically make it disappear lol
Put it in the bin!
True AND what do they do with the garbage they pull out of the ocean? Place it in a landfill?
Proving once again that every man-made problem on Earth can be solved through appropriate resource allocation, which is only hindered by those hoarding the wealth, and those in our governments whom they pay to protect their wealth from practical use.
It’s not really a solution as it will be a perpetual requirement until we just stop putting out so much plastics
“Thus solving the problem forever.”
Wait, but it’s on track to being completed. I think this doesn’t support your argument people think it supports.
I mean, in this individual instance, people with money gathered together and started solving a global problem. The poor people didn’t do shit. The hoarders of wealth gave freely to fix the problem. Capitalism saved the day here, comrade. Now, quit littering, so they don’t have to do it again.
The garbage patch isn’t even primarily from people littering. The majority is from agricultural and fishing industry.
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That tells us all we need to know about your deductive abilities 😅
That’s weird comrade because I was using inductive logic.
Seems to me you are using no logic
It’s futile to fight this type of internet rhetoric with logic. The sophomoric arguments of pure communism, socialism, or capitalism are made from great minds of the early 1900’s. Yet people in lemmy flock together behind “capitalism” is bad.
Why use logic against childish arguments. It’s more satisfying to poke at the echo chamber.
Wait, but it’s on track to being completed.
Except it actually isn’t. If you read the article, they say they could clean up the whole thing by 2034 but they need 7.5 billion dollars. So in fact people with money haven’t actually done anything yet.
I see that’s what this crowd is getting out of the article. Title literally mentions it’s on track. And funds have been raised and being raised by the evil rich.
The title is a lie, and it becomes clear in the very first sentences:
the Ocean Cleanup has announced that it’s on track to eliminate the Great Pacific Garbage Patch by 2034.
If it can get the necessary funds, that is.
That’s a big if.
And puts it where?
The Atlantic
Dammit now I have this picture in my head of two cleanup teams sneaking trash back into the other’s ocean.
I don’t know why you think the British would want to remove their own landmass?
I think their idea is to put it into new plastic products.
So it can go back into the ocean.
So our planet will have a plastic cycle then? Sounds good enough for now.
Gotta stay in business somehow.
Outside the environment.
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In how many years?
Claims 5, but says 10, by 2034…
It’s like the second line of the article
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A crawl in the positive direction
Unfortunately it is this attitude that is responsible for effectively zero actual motion. When we “look at the positive” in this situation, it does not help the situation, it hurts. “If I save a single Sea Turtle” by using an aluminum pipe for a straw. . . is my Mother’s way of patting herself on the back, getting the microdose of dopamine, and moving on to solve the next crisis.
We did it for 40 years, walking an extra 10 yards to a recycle bin to toss that water bottle and feeling good because we didn’t make the Indian (sic) guy cry . Yet, with all that time and technology, we haven’t made more than a 9% dent in the bulk of “recyclables” (excluding metals $$). And we are actually losing ground.
Instead, we have green washing grifts, like this one, which may have once upon a time, actually tried to do something, but later realized they couldn’t continue their effort without a corporate partnership. And somehow, rather than just failing and creating the vacuum, they linger, for a decade, clean up nothing, save for the staged Instagram vids that are WAAAAY more impressive than the actual footage of failure. Those vids are necessary to fund the important research, of course.
Yeah the only way to achieve actual change is up to the government. Or maybe it big corporations want to help out, which seems like that will never happen.
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Bad move. Think of the knockdown effects.
I wonder if they figured out how to remove the garbage without hurting the blue sea dragons that are living in there.
Obviously the garbage has to get out of the ocean, I just remember that the last I heard about it a few years ago they had to stop because they were accidentally hurting and killing the very wildlife they’re trying to protect. It’s a shitty catch 22 we’ve created, but I hope they succeed. That garbage has been there too fucking long.
…prompting conservatives to send even more garbage. “Ain’t nuthin in the bible about cleanin up no oceans, you marxist satanists! That garbage patch is part of our heritage!”
Nonprofit environmental organization the Ocean Cleanup has announced that it’s on track to eliminate the Great Pacific Garbage Patch by 2034.
If it can get the necessary funds, that is. In a press release, the organization claimed that eliminating the patch once and for all would cost a whopping $7.5 billion
The title seems rather misleading. “We’re on track if someone just gives us 7.5 billion USD” is a really big if. It doesn’t seem like they are close to raising those kinds of funds either.
