Benjamin Netanyahu has warned Lebanese people that they could face “destruction and suffering” like the Palestinians in Gaza if they don’t “free” the country from Hezbollah.
“You have an opportunity to save Lebanon before it falls into the abyss of a long war that will lead to destruction and suffering like we see in Gaza,” the Israeli prime minister said in a video address directed to the people of Lebanon.
“I say to you, the people of Lebanon: Free your country from Hezbollah so that this war can end.”
Just Bibi casually threatening a second genocide, nothing to see here /s
Biden: “Israel has every right to extend its borders as biblically dictated…”
I actually thought this was something he really said for a second.
I actually thought this was something he really said for a second.
yep, it was said.
“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion May 1948
On the 6th of February 1948, during a Mapai Party Council, Ben-Gurion responded to a remark from a member of the audience that “we have no land there” [in the hills and mountains west of Jerusalem] by saying: “The war will give us the land. The concepts of “ours” and “not ours” are peace concepts, only, and in war they lose their whole meaning” (Ben-Gurion, War Diary, Vol. 1, entry dated 6 February 1948. p.211)
The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan
Biblically or bibi-vocally?
I wonder how fully, fully, fully Biden will support it.
People here constantly repeating this is so tiresome. Read this: https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/08/politics/bob-woodward-book-war-joe-biden-putin-netanyahu-trump/index.html
And yet he has yet to get off Bibi’s dick.
Still sending weapons, aid money. no sanctions. Military support when they fuck around are about to find out.
But Biden is shaking his fist very angrily! That has to count for something! /s
Is his brow furrowed, though?
It’s the complete performance, though maybe the added wink and nod spoil it a bit.
Just because Biden bitches about Netanyahu in private doesn’t mean he’s not supporting Israel unconditionally.
This comment is so puerile. Joe Biden isn’t a king. Take it up with the vast majority of Americans who have been supporting Israel’s genocide.
2/3rds of America support a ceasefire. This isn’t the will of the majority. Just the will of the rich.
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If he did actually support a ceasefire, he would have enforced it. Israel is America’s proxy. Biden holds the cards here.
They don’t care, they want to get Trump elected.
I’m taking him at face value, not someone’s memoire recollection.
Serious question: what do you think publicly repudiating Israel would do for the democrats’ chances of willing the presidential election? It makes sense for them to say nothing publicly while privately trying to tie down those loose cannons.
I think it would help. A lot.
Honestly I suspect it would do the opposite, Lemmy is a bit of a echo chamber and while users here heavily skew towards favoring Palestine in this, or at least condemning what Isreal is and honestly has long been doing to them, the US as a whole, even the base of the democratic party, has long been at least mildly friendly towards Isreal, and a large fraction will see Hamas’s attack as justifying Isreali action. It’s a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation for the dems I think where their current path angers progressives on the left, and actively sanctioning Isreal would probably anger the more center-right side of the party, and they need both to turn out to win. They probably figure that at the end of the day, the left either is mostly younger people that don’t vote as reliably, or will bite their tongues and vote for them, because, well, if you’re given only two possible futures, both evil, and a choice between them, one has a moral obligation to choose the lesser evil, no matter how evil that lesser is, just because by definition, the greater evil is worse. But the center-right, they probably figure, probably don’t care about what is happening as much, and will feel much less uncomfortable about just voting for the republicans instead if the dem candidate doesn’t do what they want.
That being said, it doesn’t really much matter, ethically, if not helping kill tens of thousands of innocent people makes it slightly harder to win political power for yourself, it’s still a pretty horrible excuse. Nobody sitting in a jury would let someone go free if they were accused of being an accomplice to a murder, if that accomplice’s defense was “well, I’m running for mayor, and if I didn’t help the murderer, his friends probably won’t vote for me”. Like I get that Kamala isn’t really calling the shots on that, being only vice president currently, but she doesn’t seem like she intends to change how Biden has handled the situation much.
Don’t get me wrong, I am voting for her, I’m not one of those people that thinks that it is somehow noble to just let the greater evil win if it means not taking an action that helps the lesser evil beat it, I think that the going for the best outcome plausibly available is always the right thing to do and that doing the reverse because “well my hands are clean” is a misguided and self centered way to do ethics, but like damn people (to which I mean the people that actually side with Isreal in this, and the DNC I guess, not they they see my tired internet ranting), just because the other option is as close as the country has come in a century to “literally Hitler” does not mean that you have to emulate Churchill refusing to help the Bengalis.
They figured it’ll cost them more to condemn Israel. And they’re wrong. Progressive voters’ (a demographic that was essential for Biden’s 2020 victory) enthusiasm is in the ditch and Muslim voters are actively abandoning Harris (another essential demographic) and in doing so giving multiple swing states to Republicans. And I repeat: multiple. Michigan isn’t the only one.
That aside, you have to remember that center right democrats don’t care about Israel as much as leftists care about Palestine. Even Democrat voters who would find conditioning aid to Israel objectionable wouldn’t care enough to change their vote on election day, because the people who do care that much are already all republican.
Shit. You’re right.
Political power for themselves, sure, but that also means way less power for the Kremlin asset who will do an incredible amount of damage of elected again.
It would help with a base that doesn’t reliably vote even in countries where they have more political options available to them.
In the population in general more people support Israel than Palestine, especially amongst older electors that actually show up to vote.
what do you think publicly repudiating Israel would do for the democrats’ chances of winning the presidential election?
Would probably improve them. Dramatically so if backed by actions such as stopping all weapons shipments
It makes sense for them to say nothing publicly while privately trying to tie down those loose cannons.
First of all, no. It doesn’t make sense to publicly do the opposite of what a majority of the population, including an overwhelming majority of your own base, wants.
Also, “loose cannons” must be a new fucking record for downplaying 75 years of apartheid rule and an ongoing genocide!
what a majority of the population, including an overwhelming majority of your own base
Source for this? Polls I’ve seen suggest otherwise, but maybe you have access to data that others don’t.
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Well it seems currently they’re supporting it, and currently they’re also neck and neck with Trump. Doesn’t it strike you as odd that the race is so close despite Trump having dozens of felonies, being so old, and being generally insane?
They’ve polled roughly that question. It would increase support among Democrats and Independents, i.e., the people that matter.
Nearly half (47%) of Americans say they would be more likely to support a 2024 presidential candidate who continues to support Israel, while 48% say they would be less likely to support a candidate who does so. These sentiments, however, vary by political affiliation. While at least half of Democrats (56%) and independents (51%) say that continuing to give military aid to Israel would make them less likely to support a presidential candidate, most Republicans (62%) say doing so would make them more likely to support a presidential candidate.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/americans-split-continuing-military-aid-israel
Now poll likely voters. Gen Z and their TikTok propaganda-fueled superficial outrage mean nothing in an election when they don’t bother to vote… and they don’t.
Here are 4 polls, 2 from May and 2 from Nov 2024
Polls:
Quotes
In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.
- New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (Full YouGov Report) (May 2024)
Quotes
- Data For Progress Poll (May 2024)
Quotes
Quotes
Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.
Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.
He didn’t “say nothing publicly”, and nice try moving the goalpost.
Huh?
It would guarantee a Trump landslide. Democrats are already being called antisemites.
Yeah this is exactly what people said about Biden dropping out of the race too.
Everyone, including Jon Stewart and Nancy Pelosi, wanted Joe Biden to drop out. We all did. But attacking him was a dumb strategy. Unless of course you’re a histrionic child throwing a tantrum.
The genocide is real. Those are words, and 100% more cynical than thoughts and prayers
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That is not something I would take as fact. Questionable polling at best, and it’s laughable to say it’s what the American people want when they have no say in the matter. The powers at be will not allow candidates to be critical of Israel…ie the PACs that choose which candidates are on the national ticket. I’m sure if the American people were able to vote on this issue, funding to Israel would cease immediately.
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You’re either trolling or very naive
So your justification for supporting genocide is that it gives people better opportunities for career advancement? Well, now I’m convinced it’s a good thing.
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That’s true but as long as his political opponent has a more supportive stance on Israel, the Democratic Party knows that there’s a lot more room to support Israel without haemorrhaging too many voters who don’t align with that value.
“Free yourself from Hezbollah so that it’s easier for us to roll in and take everything” is what he’s actually saying.
They’ve already started advertising for new homes for Israeli’s to purchase in Lebanon.
If by “they” you mean Israel, no they aren’t.
That ad is fake. It’s propaganda from a small, extremist organization that advocates for Israeli settlement of southern Lebanon. They’ve also sent eviction notices to residents of Labanon via balloons and drones.
The ad was made by an Israeli settler organization, but that doesn’t make it fake. The Israeli government pretends to have nothing to do with these things then defends them; that’s how their settlements have always work. In the case of an occupation, I don’t see any difference between South Lebanon and the West Bank, in which case this ad is very much real.
It’s fake because it’s not an ad.
It’s propaganda designed to look like an ad. The group that made it does not sell or develop property. It is impossible to buy the “advertised” property because it doesn’t exist and they are not selling property.
The threat from the group is real. Their intention is to legitimize the idea of occupying and settling southern Lebanon. They themselves say that they are not selling property but promoting a future where it’s possible for Israelis to buy/sell property in southern Lebanon.
Oh, I see now. Yeah that makes sense.
If by “they” you mean Israel, no they aren’t.
If they meant “far right citizens of Israel that agree with their government’s genocide” then, yeah, they are.
Saying that group has nothing to do with Bibi seems an awful lot like saying trump had nothing to do with 1/6.
Can you help me understand how its different?
For what it’s worth, It’s a fake, not a real ad, and not officially sponsored by the government of Israel.
But it’s disturbing precisely because it’s so easy to believe that this was real.
Sure. First, is that an advertisement for property? No, it isn’t. The statement that it’s advertising property is false. It’s political propaganda designed to look like an advertisement.
The state of Israel and political groups within that state are different entities. When the Proud Boys release some vile statement, I’m sure someone, somewhere is like “OMG look what the US is doing!” But the Proud Boys and the US state are different entities, even if the Proud Boys reside within the US state. Even if there are US officials whose values align closely with those chuds.
The comment I replied to was wrong about both who was speaking and what they were saying.
Is there some way that ‘The state of Israel is advertising property for sale in Lebanon’ is a true statement?
Oh wow…
I really didn’t think you’d just outright say you think trump is innocent in regards to his supporters attempting a coup
But that still doesn’t change that you made one assumption about what “they” meant. And ignored the other possibilities.
I really didn’t think you’d just outright say you think trump is innocent in regards to his supporters attempting a coup
I don’t see that. Perhaps the edit status didn’t federate but the earlier commenter’s comment says nothing about that guy. Rather the commenter was just saying that Jan 6 was not officially encouraged by the US gov’t or someone acting in his or her official capacity. Which may not be true (I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that the SC has given that guy immunity for everything on Jan 6 on account of it somehow being part of his “official duties” which means the above would have to be wrong.)
But we can all agree that this guy definitely was associated with 1/6 in is personal capacity as a private person - and the same would be true of ““far right citizens of Israel that agree with their government” and perhaps of Bibi in his personal capacity.
Yeah, I’m not buying that for a second. Just because there’s no clear link between these settler groups and the Israeli government doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. This is what Israel does. Displaces a population through force and violence and then settles the land for their own people.
No. There’s a very clear link…
Here’s the person in charge of Israeli police:
Ben-Gvir has been convicted eight times for offenses that include racism and supporting a terrorist organization. As a teen, his views were so extreme that the army banned him from compulsory military service.
Ben-Gvir gained notoriety in his youth as a follower of the late racist rabbi Meir Kahane. He first became a national figure when Ben-Gvir famously broke a hood ornament off then-Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin’s car in 1995.
“We got to his car, and we’ll get to him too,” he said, just weeks before Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish extremist opposed to his peace efforts with the Palestinians.
Two years later, Ben-Gvir took responsibility for orchestrating a campaign of protests, including death threats, that forced Irish singer Sinead O’Connor to cancel a concert for peace in Jerusalem.
When you put a racist terrorist in charge of National Security. It’s pretty impossible to seperate the administration from racist terrorists…
When you put a racist terrorist in charge of National Security. It’s pretty impossible to seperate the administration from racist terrorists…
That’s a good point. So, as far as I know, Ben-Gvir isn’t directly associated with the folks behind the fake ad. However, that’s missing the forest for the trees. The point is that it’s too easy to see him and Bibi being behind the group.
What exactly aren’t you buying?
It is literally not an advertisement for property. No one is advertising property for sale. Your speculation about the relationship between two groups not selling property seems pretty pointless in this case.
There are plenty things to be angry at Israel about. You shouldn’t waste your time being angry about imaginary things.
I’m not buying the fact that Israel has no plans to settle Lebanon once they manage to displace enough people. We’ve seen it done many times to the Palestinians over the past 70+ years. There’s no reason for anyone to believe they don’t want to do the same here. They literally tried doing that in the 90s with the south of Lebanon, and Hezbolllah harassed them so much that they were forced to leave the area and give it back to Lebanon.
What’s that got to do with me? I wasn’t talking about whether Israel has plans to occupy or settle Lebanon. I was commenting on whether they are advertising property for sale, which they are not.
What do you mean what’s that got to do with you? I never talked about you in the first place?
You:
I’m not buying the fact that Israel has no plans to settle Lebanon
I’m not selling that.
I’m not commenting on Israeli intentions in Lebanon. I’m not defending Israel or their aims. I’m just commenting on one small thing:
Is Israel advertising property for sale in Lebanon?
And they aren’t.
I’m not trying to convince you that it has some big implication for their intentions in Lebanon. It doesn’t. They just aren’t advertising property for sale in Lebanon. Whatever Israel’s intentions are, that claim is false.
Are the Israeli settlers in the West Bank also just a “small, extremist organization” in your mind?
No.
“Look what you’re making me do”.
Netanyahu is the closest thing we’ve had to Hitler in quite a while.
Watch out, a French humorist has lost his job for making that comparison
In general I’m not a fan of hitler or nazi comparisons. I understand how someone could take offense at the use of the phrase “grammar nazi” for example.
But the rhetoric and the genocide we have heard from Netanyahu and his cabinet is atrocious, dehumanizing propaganda against not only the Palestinians, but also anyone who believes that all humans should have access to even the most basic human needs.
And as time goes on, Netanyahu is only proving what a sick racist bastard he really is.
He will be remembered for being a shitty human being. And he is seriously hurting the reputation of Israel on the world stage and endangering the lives of actual Israeli citizens and Jewish people all over the world.
I still can’t believe the guy responsible for Yitzhak Rabin’s death is in power
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So, similar…. But the difference is Netanyahu has a smaller penis?
I don’t know. I haven’t seen it.
He is Hitler.
I wish the US election wasn’t between Neville Chamberlain and Vidkun Quisling.
What language was the announcement in?
Israel is very consistent in using the language for televised statements in the language of the intended audience.
When Israel states something in English, the intended audience is generally the US, not whom they are addressing.
We have first genocide, yes, but what about second genocide?
It’s looking like the Oprah meme. “You get a genocide, and you get a genocide, and you get a genocide”
I simply can not comprehend how any politicians defend Israel and don’t have their reputation in tatters.
I think the same. Not sure what to do about it though. If our choices in this “democracy” are a criminal who wants to murder us all and end our democracy (Trump) or a political party that openly supports genocide (Harris), then its time for our system to find some third solution than voting for one of these two. Its hard to figure out how to do that though. We’re all absolutely being played, both dem and republican-- and they arent even doing a compelling job lying to us. Its an extra insult-cherry on top.
I’m from the UK and we have pretty wank choices. Last election it was pro Israel vs pro Israel. Unfortunately politics is like a bus, and you gotta ride the one heading closest to your direction. We basically were heading for Labour landslide so in some seats, people could choose another option.
In presidential elections, its a little diferrent. Trump absolutely would give unquestionably. He did this with recognising Jerusalem wholly as Israel capital. I’m not defending Dems, they’re shit. Joe has been poor on this. Kamala, we don’t know too well. We do know if she wants to be elected, she cannot outright say anything or AIPAC will throw everything against her.
First Past the Post sucks as an electoral system. Sometimes it’s about building support for the good forces in the lesser elections (state etc to apply pressure). The moment it looks like their power is about to go, they rethink their positions.
It’s the exact same playbook as in Palestine.
No doubt there will soon be Israeli “settlers” in Lebanese territory surrounded by enormous areas stolen from the locals “for security”.
They’ve already been brainwashing their population for a long time:
Children’s book about invading Lebanon
And advertising properties for sale in Lebanon:
Settler group advertises properties for sale in southern Lebanon
A rabidly racist society whose leaders keep telling the West that they have “Western Values”.
Yeah, 19th Century White Colonialist Values, same kind that the Belgians in Congo and the Afrikaneers in South Africa had.
And they act as if we should be afraid of Hamas and Hezbollah.
I certainly don’t support Islamist groups, but both Hamas and Hezbollah have been born out of necessary resistance to Israel’s aggression. There could have been secular or socialist resistance groups, but Hamas and Hezbollah are the ones that have been funded and propped up because it’s easy to paint them as the enemy. Hamas and Hezbollah aren’t coming for any of us.
I have zero fear of Hezbollah or Hamas, but I’m deeply fearful of Zionists.
Then they’ll do Syria, then Egypt with the Muslim brotherhood, then they’ll attack Iraq, then they’ll attack Saudi Arabia, and it’ll continue on and on like this.
I’m curious who America will bend over backwards for in a war between Israel and Saudi Arabia.
The highest bidder.
Right? I think that’s when the US will eventually say stop.
But who knows.
They always claim Hezbollah is terrorist, but surely the IDF have a larger civilian kill count and a larger percentage of civilians killed.
Israel feeling pretty confident there is zero consequences to their actions now.
This is what I don’t get… Hezbollah has seats in Lebanon’s parliament. How is it any different than Likud? Aside from the whole, “not being actively genocidal” thing. Should we compare civilian casualties between the two groups?
Why are we only cool with democracy (and “spreading” it) when they vote for the people we like?
Edit: well, I stand corrected. Here is an article today showing Hezbollah committing literal war crimes today… Oh no wait. Hold on a second, that was actually the IDF:
So at what point do they become “terrorists”? Or are we just having a pointless semantic argument at this point?
Likud doesn’t maintain a separate army under their own flag.
Literal terrorism. Literal war crimes. This just happened.
Even worse than a militant group, this is state-sponsored. Which is, of course, what legitimizes it in your sick minds. That’s the difference between “defending ourselves” and, “commiting horrific acts of terrorism.” Some intangible concept of legitimaticy that apparently gives carte blanche to commit genocide.
I could be wrong, but I cannot ever recall seeing any articles about Hezbollah (or even Hamas for that matter) attacking humanitarian aid convoys. And I mean ever. And yet this isn’t even the second, or third time I’ve seen Israel do it in one year.
Not many things are black and white in this world…
Yes they do, it’s called the IDF and literally every citizen has to serve and receive “conditioning” that dehumanizes Arabs.
Since I know you’re going to balk at that (doesn’t change the fact that it is an accurate comparison)… Then how about Israeli settlers (AKA Jewish people from Brooklyn) in the West Bank invading Palestinian villages with AR-15s and forcing them from their ancestral homes at gunpoint? Murdering men, women, and children for some property they have zero claim to. Is that close enough for you?
No, you’re right, it’s not. Because Hezbollah isn’t an invading force.
I’m tired of people acting like these parties don’t have militant arms directly because of Israel’s actions. Intentional, I might add. They know they’re creating more “terrorists.”
The only sane comment in this entire post.
So what’s the functional difference? Why does that matter? Should we compare civilian casualties of the IDF vs. Hezbollah and the Lebanese Army combined? Because it’s still not even close.
Doesn’t seem like anyone who replied to me has any interest in comparing these types of statistics. They never are. I wonder why that is…
Seems a bit telling. Hezbollah, a literal terrorist organization; It should be a trivial exercise to compare civilian casualties. Why wouldn’t any IDF defenders want to have this conversation? “Most moral military in the world,” I thought? Should be no problem.
Small Hitler can’t get enough.
Netanyahu: “Here I go, killing again!” If I was the US president would simply give Netanyahu the Osama Bin Laden treatment. Have some special ops dump his body in the ocean, send a message to the next Israeli PM there are consequences.
And then you get a visit from Mossad to send a message to your vice president.
Mossad couldn’t stop october 7th, they can’t do shit.
Oct 7 was the pretense Bibi needed to start his genocide. Why would they stop it?
Same thing as George W. Bush (moreso Cheney and Haliburton) wanting war in the middle east and letting 9-11 happen despite actionable intelligence beforehand.
Agreed. Mossad spends a lot of time and huge amounts of money spreading myths of how capable they and the Israeli military are. A good chunk of Israeli military are conscripts serving short terms. Israel is powerful because they have bought off western powers, not because they are in any way a power unto themselves. If the western powers would start prosecuting Israeli spies and theives itd be a good start, and the world would quickly see they arent scary against anyone with decent funding.
So does giving a rival head of state “the Osama Bin Laden treatment”.
Sure seems like plain old terrorism to me.
why is this man in government and not standing trial in front of the international criminal court
Because we don’t have an international criminal police force.
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Dont forget the purposeful murder of every journalist and aid worker they can find, very explicit and purposeful starving of a civilian population, and their attempts to frame the UN as a terrorist organization.
Notice that the schools, hospitals, residential blocks, etc in Lebanon are attacked without even a modicum of pretense. The justifications for bombing hospitals last year were clearly half-assed and false, but now they don’t even bother to give them.
Terrorism is when ones tries to achieve political objectives by putting pressure on a population through attacks on non-military targets.
What Israel is saying here is like Bin Laden hitting the Twin Towers to “pressure their political opponents”.
Points gun at someone’s head.“Don’t make me kill you! If I do it’ll be your own fault!”
